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I posted a number of suggestions/thoughts regarding Atlanta's downtown. It seems to me what I said before - no one in Atlanta seems all that interested in downtown. It is not Buckhead or Midtown where the money people live and so it has been allowed to languish. It is reality. I introduced the idea of bringing ppl with $$$$ to downtown to live so as to bring some attn to the area. No one seems to care what Auburn Avenue looks like, the neighborhoods near the capital or those areas near Underground. The first thing that needs to happen is a true interest in bringing up ALL of Atlanta - not just the areas way north of 20. That mentality drags the entire city down, including the southernmost business district, which is downtown.
ANY of the many developmts of 2014 and 2015 could have just as easily gone downtown and drew the crowds/shoppers there. Buckhead Atlanta, Ponce City Market, Krog. But there is no interest in this city in doing anything that is not in an already wealthy area. As a result, downtown has looked a desolate somewhat deserted (save s few govt buildings) mess for years.
A change of mentality would improve Atlanta's downtown, its educational system, etc.
Last edited by LovelySummer; 01-14-2015 at 10:25 AM..
I posted a number of suggestions/thoughts regarding Atlanta's downtown. It seems to me what I said before - no one in Atlanta seems all that interested in downtown. It is not Buckhead or Midtown where the money people live and so it has been allowed to languish. It is reality. I introduced the idea of bringing ppl with $$$$ to downtown to live so as to bring some attn to the area. No one seems to care what Auburn Avenue looks like, the neighborhoods near the capital or those areas near Underground. The first thing that needs to happen is a true interest in bringing up ALL of Atlanta - not just the areas way north of 20. That mentality drags the entire city down, including the southernmost business district, which is downtown.
ANY of the many developmts of 2014 and 2015 could have just as easily gone downtown and drew the crowds/shoppers there. Buckhead Atlanta, Ponce City Market, Krog. But there is no interest in this city in doing anything that is not in an already wealthy area. As a result, downtown has looked a desolate somewhat deserted (save s few govt buildings) mess for years.
I definitely notice a difference here. Lots of people with money live in downtown Dallas.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,277,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillinthesouth
I agree. It's kind of unfair when Atlanta gets singled out for its less than stellar downtown (it definitely is not an impressive downtown for a city its size) when it's not the true center of the city like other more traditional downtowns in the U.S.
As for Chicago - if I'm not mistaken, there's no actual "downtown." When people talk about downtown Chicago, they're refering to an area that includes the Loop and the area north of the river (I forget what that submarket is called that includes the Magnificent Mile).
Ok I will respond to a Chicago comment again....
Chicago actually as one of the MOST TRUE BIG CITY DOWNTOWNS IN THE NATION. Having in the Blocks defined as downtown.... all we expect a downtown to have? Its main business district, it has TWO Shopping streets, much of its museums and Hotels. It has expanded from just the Loop to include the Near North through Streeterville and now includes River North area also. To me the Gold Coast is also downtown... just technically no.
I found this article on best downtowns... last paragraph answers it
I don't know if Atlanta's downtown is the worst, but for a city of its supposed scale, it is lacking.
I like downtown Dallas better than downtown Atlanta. At ground level, downtown Dallas is more visuslly appealing to me, lots of big companies are there, it has more cultural offerings, more residential buildings and WAY less homeless people. I work in the heart of arts district in downtown Dallas and I haven't been panhandled not even once. It also has lots of dining options and has concert venues and a few nightclubs with others very near by. It also has more transit options.
Like Atlanta it doesn't have a lot of shopping but it does have a Neiman Marcus.
Downtown Dallas is a lot more corporate feeling than Downtown Atlanta. Lots of shiny skyscrapers, but it feels...I don't know...bland. I think Downtown Atlanta has more interesting neighborhoods like Fairlie Poplar, Sweet Auburn/East Downtown, and South Downtown.
Downtown Dallas also doesn't have more residential buildings. Walkscore puts Downtown Dallas at just a few thousand people. Walkscore has Downtown Atlanta at 13.4k people. Stop lying.
More transit options? Really? Downtown Atlanta has about 5 subway stops. And it's not lightrail. It's actually heavy rail subway. Not to mention the streetcar just opened. Downtown Atlanta has the much more big city feeling seeing people coming out of the MARTA station that can remind you of the more urban cities the world and country. This is more of your bias flowing out of you. No one with a neutral mind would say Downtown Dallas has more transit options.
Downtown Atlanta feels dirtier because it's A LOT more crowded during the weekdays. It actually gives it a gritty feeling that I like more than...say...Midtown Atlanta.
I guess if you consider the Arts District downtown, then it does have more cultural offerings than Downtown Atlanta.
Dining options, concert venues, and nightclubs means jack for both. They both suck at these things in their respective downtown areas. Dallas isn't a New Orleans or Philly.
One thing Downtown Atlanta has over Downtown Dallas is that it's family friendly. A lot of people tend to forget Centennial Olympic park and realize that there's a lot of things for families to do.
I love compact, charming neighborhoods and you won't find this in Dallas. Only wide streets.
(My photos)
Last edited by Ant131531; 01-14-2015 at 11:22 AM..
I posted a number of suggestions/thoughts regarding Atlanta's downtown. It seems to me what I said before - no one in Atlanta seems all that interested in downtown. It is not Buckhead or Midtown where the money people live and so it has been allowed to languish. It is reality. I introduced the idea of bringing ppl with $$$$ to downtown to live so as to bring some attn to the area. No one seems to care what Auburn Avenue looks like, the neighborhoods near the capital or those areas near Underground. The first thing that needs to happen is a true interest in bringing up ALL of Atlanta - not just the areas way north of 20. That mentality drags the entire city down, including the southernmost business district, which is downtown.
ANY of the many developmts of 2014 and 2015 could have just as easily gone downtown and drew the crowds/shoppers there. Buckhead Atlanta, Ponce City Market, Krog. But there is no interest in this city in doing anything that is not in an already wealthy area. As a result, downtown has looked a desolate somewhat deserted (save s few govt buildings) mess for years.
A change of mentality would improve Atlanta's downtown, its educational system, etc.
Ponce City Market was once in a not so great area and O4W wasn't as hip and cool as it was just 5 years ago. That gentrified over the last 5 years because of the beltline. So no, things don't happen in "already rich areas". Reynoldstown is next and that still a relatively working to middle class area.
And sorry, but there are plenty of cities that ignore large swaths of their outer city areas: Chicago completely ignores it's Southside...let's be real. Almost all of the development and investment is going to Downtown Chicago or the northern neighborhoods...I pay attention to it's developments.
The city has been attempting to revive downtown in several ways including the streetcar and the recent sell of Underground which has finally been a big hurdle and step forward.
I can't believe I'm defending Atlanta, but whatever. I just find it weird that for someone I thought was a moderate Atlanta booster, you've quickly went to blasting it in this thread. Why don't you move to the southern areas and help with the eventual gentrification? Aren't you in Buckhead...lol?
Great pics there Ant.
I love Fairlie-Poplar too!
The feel in that area of downtown is dense & more like that of older east coast & midwestern cities.
And for the record here, I pointed out in a recent thread that in 1900 Atlanta had a population of only 89,000 residents. It's history as a major city is very recent & actually only of note in the postWW2 era. By way of comparison & reference, the present estimated population of Macon, Ga. is exactly at 89,000.
Given the development patterns of the post-war period in America's central cities, we in Atlanta are lucky to even have as much of the small original area of good bones left that still remain in downtown, such as in the Fairlie-Poplar district pictured by Ant.
Downtown Dallas is a lot more corporate feeling than Downtown Atlanta. Lots of shiny skyscrapers, but it feels...I don't know...bland. I think Downtown Atlanta has more interesting neighborhoods like Fairlie Poplar, Sweet Auburn/East Downtown, and South Downtown.
Downtown Dallas also doesn't have more residential buildings. Walkscore puts Downtown Dallas at just a few thousand people. Walkscore has Downtown Atlanta at 13.4k people. Stop lying.
More transit options? Really? Downtown Atlanta has about 5 subway stops. And it's not lightrail. It's actually heavy rail subway. Not to mention the streetcar just opened. Downtown Atlanta has the much more big city feeling seeing people coming out of the MARTA station that can remind you of the more urban cities the world and country. This is more of your bias flowing out of you. No one with a neutral mind would say Downtown Dallas has more transit options.
Downtown Atlanta feels dirtier because it's A LOT more crowded during the weekdays. It actually gives it a gritty feeling that I like more than...say...Midtown Atlanta.
I guess if you consider the Arts District downtown, then it does have more cultural offerings than Downtown Atlanta.
Dining options, concert venues, and nightclubs means jack for both. They both suck at these things in their respective downtown areas. Dallas isn't a New Orleans or Philly.
One thing Downtown Atlanta has over Downtown Dallas is that it's family friendly. A lot of people tend to forget Centennial Olympic park and realize that there's a lot of things for families to do.
I love compact, charming neighborhoods and you won't find this in Dallas. Only wide streets.
(My photos)
Since you don't seem to have the ability to engage in a civil discourse without being mean and insulting, I will no longer respond to you.
I AM a moderate Atlanta booster.... The suggestions are those things that can help Atlanta get going. Isn't that the point - or is the point to simply defend the status quo? How is it going to improve if everyone is too sensitive to hear criticisms and suggestions for improving the city?
None of my posts pulled Atlanta down. I simply know a bit about Chicago so, since someone brought it up, I thought I would opine. It was not anti-Atlanta sentiment. It was/is pro-hometown sentiment.
Yes, I live in Buckhead but I and my husband (who has been an inner city school teacher with APS - who only takes jobs in the grittiest areas of town, intentionally bc he feels those children need him more - do quite alot of business on the southside of town but live where we live for proximity to our child's school). I refuse to subject a preschooler to a long commute. I won't do that. I actually prefer a more racially diverse area and actively seek out those areas as I want my child to experience everyone. Not just rich kids of x race. Not into that.
I do not buy that Ponce was in a gritty area. Nothing across the street from a Whole Foods will ever be that gritty. Sorry. Whole Foods does not setup in gritty areas or even working class areas or even solidly middle class areas. They just don't.
I would love for someone to point me to homes in downtown with potential. I asked if downtown had single family homes but all I heard were crickets. Check upthread. You'll see. I have also asked about and evaluated Grant Park. Do a search. The problem I found with Grant Park is that most of the families there are all white. Same as buckhead. It makes absolutely no sense to move further away and there would still be little to no racial diversity from families perspective, which I personally consider a huge plus. That and socioeconomic diversity.
Finally, you are absolutely right that Chicago does not invest properly in economic infrasture in the south part of the city. Once again, I was not comparing Chicago to Atlanta, I was simply noting what I see going on in Atlanta in case someone actually wants to change that. It is pitiful in Chicago and it is pitiful in Atlanta. In fact, all over the country, there is less investment in areas where people of color tend to live is what my own novice eyes seem to say. It is the same in LA, Chicago, Atlanta. Atlanta needs to step forward with a different model. You know. Lead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
Ponce City Market was once in a not so great area and O4W wasn't as hip and cool as it was just 5 years ago. That gentrified over the last 5 years because of the beltline. So no, things don't happen in "already rich areas". Reynoldstown is next and that still a relatively working to middle class area.
And sorry, but there are plenty of cities that ignore large swaths of their outer city areas: Chicago completely ignores it's Southside...let's be real. Almost all of the development and investment is going to Downtown Chicago or the northern neighborhoods...I pay attention to it's developments.
The city has been attempting to revive downtown in several ways including the streetcar and the recent sell of Underground which has finally been a big hurdle and step forward.
I can't believe I'm defending Atlanta, but whatever. I just find it weird that for someone I thought was a moderate Atlanta booster, you've quickly went to blasting it in this thread. Why don't you move to the southern areas and help with the eventual gentrification? Aren't you in Buckhead...lol?
I AM a moderate Atlanta booster.... The suggestions are those things that can help Atlanta get going. Isn't that the point - or is the point to simply defend the status quo? How is it going to improve if everyone is too sensitive to hear criticisms and suggestions for improving the city?
None of my posts pulled Atlanta down. I simply know a bit about Chicago so, since someone brought it up, I thought I would opine. It was not anti-Atlanta sentiment. It was/is pro-hometown sentiment.
Yes, I live in Buckhead but I and my husband (who has been an inner city school teacher with APS - who only takes jobs in the grittiest areas of town, intentionally bc he feels those children need him more - do quite alot of business on the southside of town and live where we live for proximity to our child's school). I actually prefer a more racially diverse area and actively seek out those areas as I want my child to experience everyone. Not just rich kids of x race. Not into that.
I do not buy that Ponce was in a gritty area. Nothing across the street from a Whole Foods will ever be that gritty. Sorry. Whole Foods does not setup in gritty areas or even working class areas or even solidly middle class areas. They just don't.
I would love for someone to point me to homes in downtown with potential. I asked if downtown had single family homes but all I heard were crickets. Check upthread. You'll see. I have also asked about and evaluated Grant Park. Do a search. The problem I found with Grant Park is that most of the families there are all white. Same as buckhead. It makes absolutely no sense to move further away and there would still be little to no racial diversity from families perspective, which I personally consider a huge plus. That and socioeconomic diversity.
Finally, you are absolutely right that Chicago does not invest properly in economic infrasture in the south part of the city. Once again, I was not comparing Chicago to Atlanta, I was simply noting what I see going on in Atlanta in case someone actually wants to change that. It is pitiful in Chicago and it is pitiful in Atlanta. In fact, all over the country, there is less investment in areas where people of color tend to live is what my own novice eyes seem to say. It is the same in LA, Chicago, Atlanta. Atlanta needs to step forward with a different model. You know. Lead. The mayor has done a great job with infusing money into the city limits but downtown (true downtown, below North ave( has not seen much except just recently the street car). Please share
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
Ponce City Market was once in a not so great area and O4W wasn't as hip and cool as it was just 5 years ago. That gentrified over the last 5 years because of the beltline. So no, things don't happen in "already rich areas". Reynoldstown is next and that still a relatively working to middle class area.
And sorry, but there are plenty of cities that ignore large swaths of their outer city areas: Chicago completely ignores it's Southside...let's be real. Almost all of the development and investment is going to Downtown Chicago or the northern neighborhoods...I pay attention to it's developments.
The city has been attempting to revive downtown in several ways including the streetcar and the recent sell of Underground which has finally been a big hurdle and step forward.
I can't believe I'm defending Atlanta, but whatever. I just find it weird that for someone I thought was a moderate Atlanta booster, you've quickly went to blasting it in this thread. Why don't you move to the southern areas and help with the eventual gentrification? Aren't you in Buckhead...lol?
I posted a number of suggestions/thoughts regarding Atlanta's downtown. It seems to me what I said before - no one in Atlanta seems all that interested in downtown. It is not Buckhead or Midtown where the money people live and so it has been allowed to languish. It is reality. I introduced the idea of bringing ppl with $$$$ to downtown to live so as to bring some attn to the area. No one seems to care what Auburn Avenue looks like, the neighborhoods near the capital or those areas near Underground. The first thing that needs to happen is a true interest in bringing up ALL of Atlanta - not just the areas way north of 20. That mentality drags the entire city down, including the southernmost business district, which is downtown.
ANY of the many developmts of 2014 and 2015 could have just as easily gone downtown and drew the crowds/shoppers there. Buckhead Atlanta, Ponce City Market, Krog. But there is no interest in this city in doing anything that is not in an already wealthy area. As a result, downtown has looked a desolate somewhat deserted (save s few govt buildings) mess for years.
A change of mentality would improve Atlanta's downtown, its educational system, etc.
Most of the things you mentioned that are going on in Buckhead and Midtown are private enteeprise.
The market has to drive development like a Ponce City Market.If people won't go there is only so much you can do.
That said , there are things going on.
In the last 4 years a streetcar has been built.3 museums opened, several new resturants on Restaurant Row on Marrietta st as well as a new hotel being built , various student housing apartments and Auburn Avenue has improved too because if the streetcar.
Edgewood also.
The main part problem of Downtown is from 5 points and the stretch along Peachtree going South.
There is more development happening downtown now than in years before and it does not look as though it's showing down
With the Underground being bought and redevelopment starting in a few months, I think within 5 years, downtown will be vastly different.
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