Metro Atlanta Speaks survey shows strong support for public transit (bankrupt, sales tax)

[Born 2 Roll]

It should also be noted that the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA-New York's transit network) uses 60% of the revenues that it collects from tolls on water crossings (bridges and tunnels) to subsidize transit.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I guess I am being an old stick in the mud.

In the old days, politicians were expected to tell taxpayers how they planned to spend said taxpayers' money before the election, rather than withholding their plans until after the election and springing them on the taxpayers after the fact.

The idea was that the people actually paying the money should have an idea how the politicians planned to spend their money, and the opportunity to vote accordingly.

But maybe that's not the way it's done these days.

They read the polls instead of leading.

Atlanta is desperately in need of better roads (arterials being the biggest need). But with all the NIMBYs no politician will take a lead. Of course, the NIMBYs also kill any worthwhile transit projects or turn them into toy trains that take no one to nowhere.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by gerrythesnake

No it isn't. We weren't even ranked in the top 10 on last year

Atlanta has about the worst road system in the country. Its saved by being the least dense major city in the country. Its difficult to travel any time of the day. Maybe rush hour isn't as bad in every direction as it is some other places, but its still awful to the north and northeast.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I "settled" where I was born, and haven't been able to escape yet. I am tired of this elitist attitude by intowners that everyone is always able to just up and change their whole life whenever they want!

That is the biggest fallacy in the traffic planners. They don't seem to understand that people don't stay in the same job their entire career. Your job will change and its expensive to move. And you don't know how long that new job will last.

I think all these "town centers" they are planning are terrible. We need more limited employment centers so transit can actually serve them. Transit can't serve 50 employment centers scattered in every direction.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

MARTA still has a terrible coverage for a 5.5M metro. I can point to probably 10 metros around the world with a lower metro population that has better and a more extensive transit. Most of them being in Europe and Asia where people are actually pro-transit and understand the necessity of it in a large established modern human settlement.

But hey, this is Atlanta's fault for sprawling to the point to where it's nearly 3 times larger in land area than the Paris Metro which has 2 and half times the metro population.

Atlanta was what, 90th of 100 metro areas in having mass transit access? Despite MARTA? Bus service is terrible. MARTA doesn't connect to the Cobb/Galleria or CDC/Emory. Doesn't serve the Peachtree--Battle area well which is one of the densest in town.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Excellent point about needing large-scale transit projects to address our transit issues.

But large-scale road projects like the Outer Perimeter continue to be more and more of a political impossibility due to increasing public pushback from the public as noted by 2002 gubernatorial victory by Sonny Perdue over Roy Barnes largely on the strength of intense widespread public anger and opposition to the proposed Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter road project.

Ever since that statewide election which flipped the political balance of power from Democrats (who had been power for about 140 years) to Republicans, the Outer Perimeter (particularly the Northern Arc) road construction proposal has been politically-radioactive because of the politically-crucial areas that the road was proposed to run through.

...Areas like mainly through the politically-powerful counties of Forsyth and Cherokee, both of which intentionally filled the proposed path of the road with new high-end residential development because they did not want the road constructed within their borders.

...There's also the matter of Bartow County which has many interests (including the powerful Rollins family of insecticiding and pesticiding fame) which have recently just seemingly successfully turned-back state efforts to build the controversial 411-75 Connector through historic Dobbins Mountain just outside of Cartersville after a nearly 30-year legal battle with the Georgia Department of Transportation to stop a road which seemed to be very-unpopular in those parts (in the Bartow County/Cartersville area).

Contrary to seeming popular belief inside of the I-285 Perimeter and the City of Atlanta, large-scale road projects are not really all that popular with residents in suburban areas outside of I-285 because they believe that unnecessary large-scale road construction creates much more overdevelopment and traffic than it alleviates.

With public opinion continuing to turn sharply against large-scale road construction proposals, there is no need for a "grand bargain" that includes just as many large-scale road construction proposals as it does large-scale transit expansion proposals.

The REAL need is for the state government of Georgia to stop d**king around, do its job (as mandated by the Constitution of the State of Georgia) and adequately fund the state's transportation needs (particularly within the fast-growing greater Atlanta metro region)...transportation needs which include an extremely heavy amount of transit at this point in time.

Reminds me of the ad Houston Metro had for their rail system. "What if we didn't build it and they came anyway?" That's what those people in the northern suburbs are facing.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Bus service might work but rail might be too expensive.

Maybe. But it would be interesting to see a study of what a Southpoint Mall extension of MARTA would do. That's not a lot of miles. With MARTA ending at the airport, it eliminates it as an option for everyone south of there. There might be a good population that would use it as a park n ride to airport and downtown jobs.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by #1MARTAFan

No one is disputing that there aren't a few high tolled bridges and tunnels.

Do you really think that pointing out the very few exceptions proves anything?

How the heck does a $27 toll on a bridge in Japan apply to urban Atlanta? How does a lightly traveled bridge tunnel complex in Virginia apply to Atlanta? Oh yeah... they have no parallels at all.

What point are you trying to make?

This is almost as pointless as your "Heavy rail to Athens" proposal or your "Have 'private investors' pay to build a tunnel through Atlanta" threads.

You wanted "exceptions" and you got them..."exceptions" which prove that you have nothing productive to bring to this conversation other than hot air and a complete ignorance of the facts, even when you are smacked right upside your empty air-filled head with them.

At least I and others on this board have good ideas on how to pay for infrastructure improvements, upgrades and expansions in the face of dwindling transportation funds from traditional sources (fuel taxes and sales taxes).

No one sees you coming with any productive ideas (or any ideas at all) on how to fund critically-needed infrastructure improvements and upgrades.

The only ideas that you have is to attack others' ideas in the complete absence and inability to come up with your own ideas or productive dialogue.

It's such a shame that you have to belittle and insult others' ideas to attempt to cover-up for your own inadequate intelligence and lack of self-esteem, but, hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself then go with it, #1MARTAFan or gtcorndog or whatever the heck name you decide to call yourself on your next post.

Originally Posted by #1MARTAFan

I have a random, unrelated fact for you to build a thread around: "Strawberries aren't actually berries, but bananas, avocados, pumpkins and watermelons are." Discuss.

How oh-so-appropriate that you seem so eager to build a thread around and blog about fruits.

For most people, fruit makes a healthy and nutritional high-quality snack, but in your case, you are the mental and emotional equivalent of what you eat, which is why one can infer that you seem to identify so closely with fruits.

[#1MARTAFan]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

You wanted "exceptions" and you got them..."exceptions" which prove that you have nothing productive to bring to this conversation other than hot air and a complete ignorance of the facts, even when you are smacked right upside your empty air-filled head with them.

At least I and others on this board have good ideas on how to pay for infrastructure improvements, upgrades and expansions in the face of dwindling transportation funds from traditional sources (fuel taxes and sales taxes).

No one sees you coming with any productive ideas (or any ideas at all) on how to fund critically-needed infrastructure improvements and upgrades.

The only ideas that you have is to attack others' ideas in the complete absence and inability to come up with your own ideas or productive dialogue.

It's such a shame that you have to belittle and insult others' ideas to attempt to cover-up for your own inadequate intelligence and lack of self-esteem, but, hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself then go with it, #1MARTAFan or gtcorndog or whatever the heck name you decide to call yourself on your next post.



How oh-so-appropriate that you seem so eager to build a thread around and blog about fruits.

For most people, fruit makes a healthy and nutritional high-quality snack, but in your case, you are the mental and emotional equivalent of what you eat, which is why one can infer that you seem to identify so closely with fruits.

Wow. U mad?

You fail to address the points I made.

Tell me again how Heavy Rail to Athens would attract 50,000 riders a day when all professional projections top out under 10,000. Or tell me again how a road lease in Uzbekistan means private investment is a given on nonsensical projects in Atlanta. You have big dreams, but no grasp of reality. Keep dreaming there champ and let the real men do the math and logical planning.

[jsvh]

#1MARTAFan / GTcorndog, you really "educated me" with all the facts and useful contributions to this thread. But since you seem to be so sure roads are so cheap, why are you afraid of having users pay 100% of the costs of both transit and roads?

bu2 - Its important to note that part of the reason Atlanta is so spread out with jobs and housing everywhere, and thus difficult to serve via transit is because we give people free highways and flat fare MARTA that makes it cheaper to get to work from 30 miles away than living a half mile away.