Why The Hate on the Suburbs?

[hautemomma]

Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD

That's just it. Many of Atlanta's suburbs don't have neighborhoods. They have subdivisions that are isolated and contained with no safe walking or biking paths.

I did all those things growing up and I grew up in the city proper of a much larger city than Atlanta. For me, growing up in actual neighborhoods with city blocks and not subdivisions gave me a more sense of community and much easier access to other kids to play with. If the kids on my block weren't around to play with, I could easily walk over to the next block and play with my friends there. We were also safe riding our bikes there. If there aren't a lot of kids in your subdivision or apartment complex to play with here in Atlanta, your kid is SOL.

Since moving to Atlanta, my daughter has not been able to have the childhood that I had (the same as you describe) because the layout of the suburbs and even the city just hasn't made it easier for her to connect with or go outside and play with lots of other kids. Even taking her to the park was a chore, as I had to drive around and go far from my home to find a park to take her to. In the city I grew up in, I could just walk to the end of my street to go to the park, as every neighborhood has their own parks in walking distance. It's not like that here. We also had free access to swimming pools and tennis courts. I'd never heard of paying to use public park facilities until I moved to Atlanta.

Also, I would never let my child ride a bike in a subdivision in metro Atlanta because it just isn't safe. The drivers here have no regard for pedestrians or cyclists and I would have to drive to someplace like Freedom or Deepdene parks so my daughter could have paths to safely ride her bike on. Atlanta's suburban subdivisions more often than not lack sidewalks and are too car-centric for children to safely ride bikes in. Since living here there was no place for her to ride bikes with other kids and her hanging out with friends typically requires me driving her somewhere to do so. Playing in the end of a cul-du-sac is about as good and as safe as it gets here.

I just don't see the neighborhood cohesiveness in Atlanta's suburbs allowing the children to easily play with each other like I had growing up in the inner city of a much bigger city. Since living here my daughter hasn't had the experience you describe and I spent many years living in the suburbs before moving in town.

I dare say many kids don't grow up like many of us did. Societal safety, cultural norms and parental standards have changed such that, even in safe neighborhoods, little girls and boys don't generally roam around freely with no adult oversight or supervision. I would think subdivisions provide more opportunity for children to meet each other, given the demographic (parents and families with minors) that usually chooses to live in subdivisions.

I also think that perhaps you just lived in the "wrong" subdivision for your needs and desires. There are many subdivisions with sidewalks throughout and even amenities for residential use like bike paths, club houses, workout rooms, interior parks, playgrounds, tennis courts, pools and more.

I live in a subdivision and am about three minutes (by car) from a great park. Also within a 5-8 minute drive are several grocery stores, a library, post office, several coffee shops (albeit chains) and more. Sure, I cannot (or choose not to) walk to these places, but many people in town still also drive to reach the same type of destinations.

[Atlanta_BD]

Originally Posted by hautemomma

I dare say many kids don't grow up like many of us did. Societal safety, cultural norms and parental standards have changed such that, even in safe neighborhoods, little girls and boys don't generally roam around freely with no adult oversight or supervision. I would think subdivisions provide more opportunity for children to meet each other, given the demographic (parents and families with minors) that usually chooses to live in subdivisions.

I also think that perhaps you just lived in the "wrong" subdivision for your needs and desires. There are many subdivisions with sidewalks throughout and even amenities for residential use like bike paths, club houses, workout rooms, interior parks, playgrounds, tennis courts, pools and more.

I live in a subdivision and am about three minutes (by car) from a great park. Also within a 5-8 minute drive are several grocery stores, a library, post office, several coffee shops (albeit chains) and more. Sure, I cannot (or choose not to) walk to these places, but many people in town still also drive to reach the same type of destinations.

Your last paragraph is exactly why Atlanta's suburbs don't appeal to me. I've seen such subdivisions and they are too far out and not just where I'd want to live. But all that doesn't matter to me now, as my daughter is almost out of high school. All the more reason for me not to want to live there--I have no young children.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Again, it's the city that is most often bashed here, not the burbs.

HUH? I think you need to read again. How many threads do we have on this board that reflect one of the following themes?

- Transit is the savior of Atlanta. If only those redneck suburbanites would get their heads out of the rear ends, we could make things wonderful. It's all the conservative suburbanites' fault, since they voted down MARTA in the 1960s and continue to oppose attempts to expand MARTA.

- We need to annex all the suburbs into the City of Atlanta. If only we had a huge city government that encompassed all the counties of the suburbs, things would be great. It's the redneck suburbanites and their desire to be separate politically in their counties that are the cause of all Atlanta's problems.

- Why is Atlanta "segregated?" Why do we have various communities in the suburbs that are primarily black or white?

- Is <insert suburban county or community> racist? Do they hate gays and minorities? There seems to be a presumption that suburb=conservative=white=racist, and some here buy into that hype.

I see people like myself who try to reflect a little of the reality of what some suburbanites are thinking, but the suburbs are no more monolithic than the urban areas are monolithic. I see people who say..."if you like living in the city, then great, live in the city." Yet I see lots of posts that want to make the suburbs into the city. Maybe I'm just biased, but I don't see many posts "bashing the city" unless discussing factual data (such as the City of Atlanta's lagging high school graduation rate) is considered bashing.

[ATLTJL]

And practically everything shuts down at 9. Unbelievably frustrating if you are not a 9-5'er.

This is interesting because I noticed exactly the opposite phenomenon.

When I lived intown, I got extremely frustrated by how early everything shut down. When I found myself needing a tool, DVD, or some other random thing at 1am, I had to go to the suburbs to get it. There are way more 24 hour Wal-Marts, Walgreens, etc. in the suburbs. I'll never forget how angry I was when I went to the Walgreens on Peachtree in Brookhaven (or Chamblee, wherever it is) and it had a sign saying it was no longer open until midnight and the nearest 24 hour Walgreens is in Norcross. Intown Wal-Marts also inexplicably close at midnight instead of staying open 24/7.

So while it's true that the city has more bars and some late night restaurants, it doesn't do much good if what you need at 2am isn't a drink. Ironically, bars outside the city actually stay open later because they are outside the 3am closing rule.

Contrary to your experience, I actually found that certain suburbs lend themselves to a 24 hour lifestyle much better than most intown areas do. I always worked bizarre hours and often found myself having to venture OTP to get what I needed late at night.

[glovenyc]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

It's interesting - I don't see any reason for either set of folks to have a holier-than-thou attitude about where others choose to live. I lived in Midtown for 20+ years and loved it. I now live in S. Forsyth County. In Midtown, I still drove to the grocery store, to the bank, to the pharmacy, etc., just like I do in suburbia. My kids didn't walk to school, they carpooled.

I have to say, other than the occasional trips back into the city proper, I find it much easier getting around the suburbs than getting around in the city proper. The kids' schools are less than 10 minutes away, the grocery and pharmacy are a 5 minute drive. Lots of good restaurants within 15 minutes. Heck, it sometimes took 30 - 45 minutes to drive from Ansley Park to the Lennox area. The whole "walkability" argument just is not valid for most people.

When I first moved to Atlanta, I, too, had the inexplicable attitude that I was somehow living a better life than suburbanites. I had an air of superiority. Now, having raised a family intown, having lived in what I consider a very top-end neighborhood in a very urban district and having had a 10 minute commute max, I can honestly say that the suburbs are just fine, and in some ways, as good or better than intown living - FOR ME AND MY FAMILY.

Do I miss the skyline just outside my backyard? Yep. Do I miss walking my dogs in Piedmont Park? Yep. Do I miss being able to walk to the Botanical Gardens on a nice summer afternoon? Yep. But now, I can walk to very nice neighborhood tennis courts. I can walk to a very nice neighborhood swimming pool. And, I don't have to worry about crossing streets full of traffic. I don't have to worry about the dogs getting hit if they escape the yard. I don't have to worry about my younger children walking a few blocks to visit friends. I don't have to pay a king's ransom to send my children to private school for a stellar education. I don't have to pay tens of thousands in property tax for mediocre at best services. In the suburb where I live, my children can attend stellar public schools and my property tax a fraction of what they were and the services I receive for them far better.

Were I young, single and social, would I want to live where I do now? Absolutely not. But at this phase of life, all I really want to do is stay home with my family, cook in my kitchen and curl up with a good book on my sofa with my wife and dogs. Now, when I was twenty-something I would not have appreciated that.

Can the suburbs be improved? Absolutely. Can the city be improved? Absolutely. But that is no reason for anyone to speak with disdain and criticism about either.

I think the antipathy goes both ways, although the contempt differs. OTPers find ITP beneath them do to (take a guess). ITPers have this "hipper than thou" attitude. However Ansley you are so right, city and suburbs both need improvement.

Please keep in mind that "ALL SUBURBS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL". When I moved here and contemplated where I would like to buy, being a city person my first inclination was ITP. However I realized that the ITP lifestyle isn't the complete "urban" experience like a couple of cities that I lived in but wouldn't dare mention here. The COA was not compelling enough to for the extra cost and crime. So I actually settled in a close-in suburb that I can get the best of both worlds. I am 10 minutes door-to-door from midtown, 25 mins to Hartsfield, 10 mins to Buckhead, 10 mins to Ash-Dunwoody. Personally I could never live any further outside the city than where I'm at now, exurbs are a definite no-no.