Mall of Georgia has the worst transportation design ever (Alpharetta: houses, buying)

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

But like I said several statements back... you're overplaying TSPLOST in the county SPLOST.

I'm not overplaying the unpopular and failed regional T-SPLOST in the county SPLOST because Gwinnett County didn't use county SPLOST revenues to complete the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension like the county previously did to complete the 20 S-316E portion of the road.

Gwinnett County unwisely attempted to complete the 316-PIB/Mall of Georgia portion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension project (which runs within the controversial ROW of the cancelled Northern Arc) with revenues from a highly-contentious regional T-SPLOST and by doing so, drew much negative regional and state attention to a project that the county seemingly could have easily-funded with another revenue stream (tolls or county SPLOST)...negative regional attention that may not necessarily go away if and/or when the county attempts to fund the project with a locally-commissioned revenue stream like they should have done originally and at a much-earlier date before intense opposition has a chance to kick-in and potentially derail the entire project.

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Many people in this county voted against it, because of spending elsewhere... not because of the sierra club, the southside, etc...

This is a good point, though, because Gwinnett (now what we know for certain to be unwisely) placed the 316-PIB Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension in the regional T-SPLOST project list, the Sierra Club came out against the T-SPLOST and most people on the Southside voted against the T-SPLOST directly because of the presence of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension on the T-SPLOST project list...No votes that were all motivated extremely-heavily by the presence of the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension project on the list of projects to be funded with T-SPLOST revenues.

The insertion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension into the T-SPLOST debacle by Gwinnett County also helped draw much negative regional attention to the road project because of the politically-sensitive right-of-way in which the project in proposed to run (in the abandoned ROW of the cancelled Northern Arc).

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Most people in Gwinnett would be fine with the Sugarloaf project.

Even though the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension has not yet drawn strong opposition from inside of Gwinnett County, one should not be so sure that everyone in Gwinnett County is okay with the project as Dacula Mayor Jimmy Wilbanks has not spoken in very-positive terms about how the project would cut his fast-growing city in-half and take 30 acres of land that he personally owns.

This could be problematic for the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension project moving forward as being the mayor of a city in a Tea Party-dominated area in Dacula, Jimmy Wilbanks likely would not be at all hesitant to align himself with Tea Party interests if it meant turning back and keeping a highway that he is personally not all that fond of from running through his land and his city.

The portion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension that runs between 20 (on the south side of L'ville) and 316 near Dacula, did not really run through or even close to any areas that were heavily built-up with pre-existing residential development, but the portion of the road that runs between 316 and PIB will run somewhat close to some areas of substantial residential development between GA 8/Old US 29 Winder Highway and GA 124 Braselton Highway...

...Including through the incorporated City of Dacula where the mayor and some local interests stand opposed to the road entering into the city limits of their fast-growing town as one could probably best believe that the first call that Dacula Mayor Jimmy Wilbanks makes to turn back the road will be to fellow Dacula-area resident and Tea Party leader Debbie Dooley who just happens to be one of the most-powerful figures in all of Georgia politics at the moment.

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

It has been built so far in many phases, not just one. It has been in every splost campaign since 1988 with the exception of maybe... 1.

This is a good point, though Gwinnett County has not yet officially announced that they will be using county SPLOST funds to complete the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension.

The county still has the completion of the project on a timeline of between 2018-2030 for phase 4 through the Dacula area (where the project is most-likely to meet opposition from Dacula Mayor Wilbanks and friends), and between 2030-2040 for phase 5 through the Mall of Georgia (an area which with the increasing demand being created in and around the mall area should have likely been one of the first phases of the entire GA 20 South-PIB Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension to be built with funding from tolls, IMHO).

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I think you're taking the T-Splost results and putting them in the wrong context at the local level.

The way it was set up it was doomed to fail. With diverse constituent from different regions not getting a long, the mere fact it was a metro wide vote (and not just county), and we had all the anti-transit and anti-road advocates from across the region mobolized.... it was going to fail.

Whereas the county splost doesn't have that. You can't the T-Splost and extrapolate that to the county.

The 2014 county splost easily passed with 70% being spent on transportation and they didn't have to create the list of transportation projects for public viewing to pass it. They just include a means for the citizen's review committee.

Dooley, the Sierra Club, and the Tea Partiers haven't really been able to impact the county vote at all. It took a regional tax with a specific list of projects where everyone could find something to complain about.

Those are excellent points about the how the regional T-SPLOST was (unintentionally) set up to fail by the regional and state-level creators of that legislation.

Though, with the negative regional and state attention that has been brought to the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension (negative attention that was brought on the project in large part by how poorly Gwinnett County government has handled the project by putting in the regional T-SPLOST where environmentalists and anti-roadbuilding forces could take potshots at it), and with some of the potential challenges that the last section of the roadway project will face (particularly through the fast-growing area in and around the City of Dacula), one could make the argument that the regional politics of the T-SPLOST have had a negative effect on the future of this high-profile major road project.

One also must not forget that Gwinnett County is the most-populated suburban county in the Atlanta region (second-most populated county in the state overall after Fulton), so anything that the county does, particularly in regards to attempting to build an expressway in the abandoned right-of-way of the erstwhile highly-controversial cancelled Northern Arc, is going to have much more visibility throughout the Atlanta region and the state than some in Gwinnett might be fully aware of.

When Gwinnett County placed the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension on the list of projects to be funded with revenues from the highly-contentious Atlanta regional T-SPLOST referendum, the seemingly harmless road project instantly became a lightning rod for controversy from critics and foes on all sides of Metro Atlanta's transportation policy because of the road project's location in the abandoned right-of-way of the erstwhile highly-controversial cancelled Northern Arc project of over a decade ago.

Because of how highly-visible and important Gwinnett County is on the state's political scene, and because of how Gwinnett County mishandled managing the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Pkwy Extension by trying to get funding from a regional referendum in a metro region that absolutely despises the preceding project that was unsuccessfully attempted in that ROW (the Northern Arc), it is very-difficult to say the highly-contentious transportation politics of the Atlanta metro region as whole won't have an influence in some type of way on a highly-visible major road project like the 316-PIB portion of the Sugarloaf Parkway Extension, even if the project will now be funded with a locally-commissioned source of revenue (like a county SPLOST).

[arjay57]

We had to run out to the Mall of Georgia yesterday and that whole area is getting flat built up.

Unfortunately the traffic is a complete mess.

I guess that's just part of it. Even if you were to FTZ the buses would still be creeping along. A monorail or cable car might help.

[Need4Camaro]

I personally would rather see a standardized BRT / ART system throughout making Mall Of GA accessible without too many transfers. That and MARTA rail but Mall of GA area may be pushing it as far as MARTA rail goes.

Sugarloaf Pkwy Ext will help I-85 a bit however as it will add 4 new access points to the area.

[PKCorey]

I've been visiting the Mall of Georgia area more since I've moved further out in Gwinnett. I've never visited in all of my years of living here.

The traffic is a disaster on GA-20. The lights are badly timed which doesn't help the situation at all either. The ramp from 85N to GA 20 N can be dangerous as well especially when you are coming around the corner and traffic is at a standstill. I wish, the lane from exit ramp continued all the way to MOG Blvd. With all the space in the area, I'm not why GDOT decided to keep 2 lines instead of 3 to MOG Blvd. The left turn lanes for MOG should begin further back and the turn signal should stay on for more than 8 cars.

I haven't even explored the mall yet because it is so much traffic in the area.

[arjay57]

Part of the problem is that there's just so much stuff in that area. They have used up virtually all the ER and once it's gone there isn't much you can do.

[DJDeadParrot]

The I-85 exit at Gravel Springs Rd can't come soon enough to alleviate a lot of those congestion problems on GA 20 in front of the mall. It won't take care of all of them, but it'll relieve a lot of them.

I, too, was just up that way Saturday afternoon. The line on I-85 northbound waiting to exit onto GA20 went back a mile and a half, and featured two separate rear-end collisions along the way.

BTW, I didn't wander back there; have they broken ground on that Julio Jones-backed project out near the intersection of Woodward Crossing and MoG Blvd?

[gvassar]

It's going to get much worse. Isn't Julio Jones building the next Avalon adjacent to the Mall of Georgia?

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by gvassar

It's going to get much worse. Isn't Julio Jones building the next Avalon adjacent to the Mall of Georgia?

I haven't heard of this, is this the same development that was haulted near Gwinnett Arena?

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I haven't heard of this, is this the same development that was haulted near Gwinnett Arena?

No, this one is literally around the corner from the Mall.

[arjay57]

Thank goodness it is mixed use. That is probably the only realistic way to address traffic in that part of the city.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/julio...nxcQp06JGef6J/