Mall of Georgia has the worst transportation design ever (Atlanta: crime, to buy)

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Thank goodness it is mixed use. That is probably the only realistic way to address traffic in that part of the city.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/julio...nxcQp06JGef6J/

Kinda. Or atleast for the ones who live there. Avalon is mixed use but it's not exactly an easy place to afford for the masses. Most people will likely still be commuting to it to shop much like Avalon. Although I applaud the construction of denser nodes in that area.

Curing traffic on GA-20 in general will be very difficult. It services too many other suburban nodes and acts as the surface arterial 'outer-perimeter' with the states largest mall sitting right on it. Sugarloaf Pkwy ext will give some an option to bypass the mall section of it (for a fee) which I think is okay. They can make more exits and access points like they are with GA-324) but it will still eventually become more congested as more people eventually settle in that area. ART transit routes may given options to bypass traffic but I can't envision that happening out that way.

[Tarzanman]

I don't think you can address traffic with roadways. It takes LOOOOT of money and very nice rail and cutting wealth inequality in half.

[SAAN]

Its crazy when you look at Mall of GA and business after business after business keep opening, despite the awful traffic and somewhere like Stonecrest Mall area, probably cant pay businesses to stay or come there.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by SAAN

Its crazy when you look at Mall of GA and business after business after business keep opening, despite the awful traffic and somewhere like Stonecrest Mall area, probably cant pay businesses to stay or come there.

That is a really good point about how the Mall of Georgia seems to continue to prosper despite the traffic along the main road through the area, GA-20, while an area like the Mall at Stonecrest increasingly struggles.

But when one observes the differences in average incomes in each area, it seems to become more apparent why an area like the Mall of Georgia seems to be prospering while an area like the Mall of Stonecrest is visibly declining.

Mall of Georgia area income statistics
30519 Income Statistics
30519 Per-Capita Income: $34,554
30519 Median Household Income: $82,113
30519 Average Household Income: $108,499
30519 High-Income Households: 9.4%

30518 Income Statistics
30518 Per-Capita Income: $30,198
30518 Median Household Income: $73,753
30518 Average Household Income: $90,078
30518 High-Income Households: 6.4%

30024 Income Statistics
30024 Per-Capita Income: $41,368
30024 Median Household Income: $108,845
30024 Average Household Income: $131,117
30024 High-Income Households: 17.9%


Mall at Stonecrest area income statistics
30038 Income Statistics
30038 Per-Capita Income: $24,281
30038 Median Household Income: $48,203
30038 Average Household Income: $62,867
30038 High-Income Households: 1.6%

30058 Income Statistics
30058 Per-Capita Income: $24,060
30058 Median Household Income: $51,470
30058 Average Household Income: $65,397
30058 High-Income Households: 1.9%

As demonstrated by the above income statistics, the average incomes in the 30519, 30518 and 30024 zip codes around the Mall of Georgia are significantly higher than the average incomes in the 30038 and 30058 zip codes around the Mall at Stonecrest.

The difference between the average incomes in the 30024 zip code (which is located just west of the mall area, west of I-985 and is part of the core service area for the Mall of Georgia) and the average incomes in the 30038 and 30058 zip codes (that are part of core service area for the Mall at Stonecrest) are particularly stark.

The differences between the significantly higher average incomes in a Mall of Georgia area zip code like 30024 and Mall at Stonecrest area zip codes like 30038 and 30058 also seem to provide much of the explanation why the area around a Mall of Georgia might still appear to be prospering (for the most part) and still generating high volumes of traffic along its area roadways, and the Mall at Stonecrest and its surrounding area are struggling mightily and generating declining volumes of traffic along its area roadways.

[SAAN]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

That is a really good point about how the Mall of Georgia seems to continue to prosper despite the traffic along the main road through the area, GA-20, while an area like the Mall at Stonecrest increasingly struggles.

But when one observes the differences in average incomes in each area, it seems to become more apparent why an area like the Mall of Georgia seems to be prospering while an area like the Mall of Stonecrest is visibly declining.

Mall of Georgia area income statistics
30519 Income Statistics
30519 Per-Capita Income: $34,554
30519 Median Household Income: $82,113
30519 Average Household Income: $108,499
30519 High-Income Households: 9.4%

30518 Income Statistics
30518 Per-Capita Income: $30,198
30518 Median Household Income: $73,753
30518 Average Household Income: $90,078
30518 High-Income Households: 6.4%

30024 Income Statistics
30024 Per-Capita Income: $41,368
30024 Median Household Income: $108,845
30024 Average Household Income: $131,117
30024 High-Income Households: 17.9%


Mall at Stonecrest area income statistics
30038 Income Statistics
30038 Per-Capita Income: $24,281
30038 Median Household Income: $48,203
30038 Average Household Income: $62,867
30038 High-Income Households: 1.6%

30058 Income Statistics
30058 Per-Capita Income: $24,060
30058 Median Household Income: $51,470
30058 Average Household Income: $65,397
30058 High-Income Households: 1.9%

As demonstrated by the above income statistics, the average incomes in the 30519, 30518 and 30024 zip codes around the Mall of Georgia are significantly higher than the average incomes in the 30038 and 30058 zip codes around the Mall at Stonecrest.

The difference between the average incomes in the 30024 zip code (which is located just west of the mall area, west of I-985 and is part of the core service area for the Mall of Georgia) and the average incomes in the 30038 and 30058 zip codes (that are part of core service area for the Mall at Stonecrest) are particularly stark.

The differences between the significantly higher average incomes in a Mall of Georgia area zip code like 30024 and Mall at Stonecrest area zip codes like 30038 and 30058 also seem to provide much of the explanation why the area around a Mall of Georgia might still appear to be prospering (for the most part) and still generating high volumes of traffic along its area roadways, and the Mall at Stonecrest and its surrounding area are struggling mightily and generating declining volumes of traffic along its area roadways.

While this is a great comparison and true, there are also some very nice houses in the 3-4 other zip codes that surround those main 2 zip codes by Stonecrest, so I dont think there is a shortage of money in the area, I just think businesses dont want to set up in that area.


Stonecrest had and then lost Target, BestBuy, Kohls, Big Lots, Sears, Sams Club and a few more due to bankruptcy like Toysrus, baby's R US, etc, but what sucks is alot of those stores have relocated even further out to the 138 in Conyers. Im sure the retail theft issue is lower in mall of Ga vs Stonecrest that may lead to some of this as well.


The line on the expressway could be 2 miles long to get into Mall of Ga area, but I bet folks will happily wait and still go there. Maybe in the year 2100, we will see commuter rail out to Mall of GA or at Best Express buses that connect to Downtown, Perimeter Ctr or even Alpharetta.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by SAAN

The line on the expressway could be 2 miles long to get into Mall of Ga area, but I bet folks will happily wait and still go there.

That is the durn truth. Make it hard for people to get somewhere and that's where they want to go.

[Need4Camaro]

Some of me wonders (although impractical at this point) if the GA-20 / I-85 interchange would have been better served as a SPUI.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Some of me wonders (although impractical at this point) if the GA-20 / I-85 interchange would have been better served as a SPUI.

A roundabout interchange, not to be confused with a dogbone interchange, could work well there.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by SAAN

While this is a great comparison and true, there are also some very nice houses in the 3-4 other zip codes that surround those main 2 zip codes by Stonecrest, so I dont think there is a shortage of money in the area, I just think businesses dont want to set up in that area.


Stonecrest had and then lost Target, BestBuy, Kohls, Big Lots, Sears, Sams Club and a few more due to bankruptcy like Toysrus, baby's R US, etc, but what sucks is alot of those stores have relocated even further out to the 138 in Conyers. Im sure the retail theft issue is lower in mall of Ga vs Stonecrest that may lead to some of this as well.


The line on the expressway could be 2 miles long to get into Mall of Ga area, but I bet folks will happily wait and still go there. Maybe in the year 2100, we will see commuter rail out to Mall of GA or at Best Express buses that connect to Downtown, Perimeter Ctr or even Alpharetta.

That is a good point that there are also some very nice houses in the other zip codes near the Mall at Stonecrest.

A look at the income stats for the 30094 and 30012 zip codes that neighbor the aforementioned 30038 and 30058 zip codes shows that the income statistics do not really appear to improve all that much when the income analysis of the Mall at Stonecrest area is extended further from the mall.

The income stats show modest improvement in the 30094 zip code of southwest Rockdale County that neighbors the Mall at Stonecrest area to the east.

But the income stats appear to worsen in the 30012 zip code of northwest Rockdale County that neighbors the Mall of Stonecrest area to the northeast.

30012 has a higher percentage of high-income households than the 30038 and 30058 zip codes that are closer to the Mall at Stonecrest. But per-capita, median household and average household incomes appear to be lower in the 30012 zip code than they are in the 30038 zip code where the Mall at Stonecrest is located and where incomes (and individual and household buying power) already appear to be struggling to grow.

Conyers, GA 30094 Income Statistics
30094 Per-Capita Income: $28,386
30094 Median Household Income: $67,870
30094 Average Household Income: $80,359
30094 High-Income Households: 3.4%

Conyers, GA 30012 Income Statistics
30012 Per-Capita Income: $22,224
30012 Median Household Income: $43,492
30012 Average Household Income: $60,382
30012 High-Income Households: 3.2%

That is a good assessment that businesses don't appear to want to locate in the Stonecrest Mall area, as evidenced by all of the recent retail store closures that you noted, and as evidenced by the lack of movement of new retail stores into the area.

But one of the main factors that retailers use to determine whether or not they want to open new stores (or keep existing stores open) in an area are the average incomes of residents within a certain radius of a potential (or existing) location.

If the income statistics do not show that residents in the area have an adequate and/or preferable amount of disposable income to be able to support a location for their retail chain, most retail chains will not open a new location in a given area and/or will close down an existing retail chain in an area of modest, stagnant and/or declining average incomes.

The modest average incomes in the area that surrounds the Mall at Stonecrest appears to be a major factor in the worsening struggles of the area's retail market... That is especially when compared to the higher average incomes in the area that surrounds the Mall of Georgia where the retail market appears to still be strong to the point of fewer retail space vacancies and the generation of a high level of traffic congestion.

[arjay57]

Rail out there might benefit people who work at the mall and surrounding retail stores but I doubt that many shoppers would use it.