New MMPT Renderings (Atlanta, Cleveland: credit, neighborhood, trains)

[atler8]

Regarding the Armour Yard, does anyone know if a study was ever done that told how much tax revenue would be lost by the city of Atlanta as dozens of businesses were forced to move to make way for the MARTA operations there? It seems as though opposition to the plan did not make of a dent in the areas of public forums on the proposal for it.

One of the things that angered me about the Young Administration of the 1980's in Atlanta was how it pushed relentlessly to get the Hulsey Yard built there, against the strong opposition of the nearby residents. So, the yard does not have a very long history of operation in it's current configuration. Perhaps the practicality of it as an ongoing center for the railroad has changed in the ensuing 3 decades.
Obviously the proponents of the yard prevailed but unfortunately the debate pro or con morphed into a white vs. black issue as in the touting of jobs that would be generated for people in the city itself.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by atler8

Regarding the Armour Yard, does anyone know if a study was ever done that told how much tax revenue would be lost by the city of Atlanta as dozens of businesses were forced to move to make way for the MARTA operations there?

What, MARTA is exempt from taxes?

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by cqholt

There is no room for a Cabbagetown station, with the Husley Yard and DeKalb ave. Also, most of the elevated portion is on a curve, which is terrible for a station. The ROW just doesn't exist for an infill station.

It could be a "mini-station" (well, "mini" for MARTA...normal-sized for most systems).

I've lived in various places around the country and the world. It could happen--we would just have to think outside of the Metro Atlanta box.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by HH82

I wonder if Hulsey Yard's operations will ever be relocated to somewhere with easier access for trucks. I don't understand why they insist on having a multimodal shipping yard right near all that residential like that. The area needs to be rezoned and CSX should move their operation further out on that east line to somewhere that actually makes sense. Trucks play hell getting to I-20 from there anyway. It seems like it would be in their best interest too.

Also, if LaFarge ever sells their land on Armour Drive that sits on the southwest corner of the intersection of railroads in question, then there would be room enough for a northern multimodal transfer station for MARTA, Beltline, and commuter rail. That and I think they're the last actual rail customer on the east/west line between Howell Junction and Clairmont Road, AND the only remaining customer on the southeast Beltline from Glenwood to Lee Street SW. How is it convenient for them to continue conducting their operations in those locations? Holding out for the big money offer?

Originally Posted by HH82

Easy on the hostility. I realize CSX has their own on ramp to Boulevard, but the actual street going past the wall to Oakland Cemetery and around that curve to the intersection at Memorial can get really dicey. It doesn't seem to me like it's a convenient location for an operation that size. And funding can be found for brownfield remediation. It happens all the time.

Originally Posted by HH82

And as far as relocating to the suburbs goes, both Norfolk Southern and CSX have opened HUGE multimodal yards in more remote areas in Austell and Fairburn respectively in recent years. They're obviously willing to pay for it themselves. The residents around Hulsey Yard have wanted them out of there for years, the location doesn't make business sense for them anymore, and somewhere along the rail line in those eastern suburbs and exurbs could definitely use the work. Rerouting trucks around inner city Atlanta seems like a good idea to me. There must be a good business reason so much industrial has moved OTP in the last few decades, right? It's not that much of a stretch to imagine them moving somewhere that has more space for their soon-to-be-exponentially increased operations with the Port of Savannah expansion.

Good, informative posts. Good comments.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by atler8

Regarding the Armour Yard, does anyone know if a study was ever done that told how much tax revenue would be lost by the city of Atlanta as dozens of businesses were forced to move to make way for the MARTA operations there? It seems as though opposition to the plan did not make of a dent in the areas of public forums on the proposal for it.

One of the things that angered me about the Young Administration of the 1980's in Atlanta was how it pushed relentlessly to get the Hulsey Yard built there, against the strong opposition of the nearby residents. So, the yard does not have a very long history of operation in it's current configuration. Perhaps the practicality of it as an ongoing center for the railroad has changed in the ensuing 3 decades.
Obviously the proponents of the yard prevailed but unfortunately the debate pro or con morphed into a white vs. black issue as in the touting of jobs that would be generated for people in the city itself.

Hulsey Yard existed long before CSX built its intermodal facility there.

[cqholt]

I've lived in various places around the country and the world. It could happen--we would just have to think outside of the Metro Atlanta box.

Like the Civic Center station? The only transit station in the world that is above a freeway and beneath a road.
Also, do not forget that the ROW the tracks run in was bought from CSX. There is no good place for a station there, the track is not flat and the rail yard is very busy.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by atler8

One of the things that angered me about the Young Administration of the 1980's in Atlanta was how it pushed relentlessly to get the Hulsey Yard built there, against the strong opposition of the nearby residents. So, the yard does not have a very long history of operation in it's current configuration. Perhaps the practicality of it as an ongoing center for the railroad has changed in the ensuing 3 decades.
Obviously the proponents of the yard prevailed but unfortunately the debate pro or con morphed into a white vs. black issue as in the touting of jobs that would be generated for people in the city itself.

Originally Posted by Gulch

Hulsey Yard existed long before CSX built its intermodal facility there.

Interesting information.

Hmmm...

OK, so...What was Hulsey Yard like before CSX built its intermodal facility? When did CSX build this facility?

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Like the Civic Center station? The only transit station in the world that is above a freeway and beneath a road.
Also, do not forget that the ROW the tracks run in was bought from CSX. There is no good place for a station there, the track is not flat and the rail yard is very busy.

cqholt--I'm not downing Atlanta. I am way more native than you could ever dream to be.


I'm just saying--think outside of the box. It may not be a good, perfect place...but things can be made to happen. Your Civic Center example illustrates this perfectly, brother.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Interesting information.

Hmmm...

OK, so...What was Hulsey Yard like before CSX built its intermodal facility? When did CSX build this facility?

It was a switching yard that was similarly sized to the existing facility that was built in the mid-1980s. Most of the local opposition in Cabbagetown and Reynoldstown came from the huge increase in truck traffic to and from I-20.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Gulch

It was a switching yard that was similarly sized to the existing facility that was built in the mid-1980s. Most of the local opposition in Cabbagetown and Reynoldstown came from the huge increase in truck traffic to and from I-20.

Thanks.