Midtown now 60 story tower moving forward (Atlanta, Conyers: townhome, buy, assess)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtjared

It will have a huge impact. I never said that it wouldn't. In my opinion, as a resident of the neighborhood, it will be a positive one.

It will increase traffic. It will add more people. It will add more options for apartments and retail for existing residents. It will add new residents. It will be far more efficient a use of space than throwing that many units all over the metro.

These developments all over Midtown are happening and they will be for the better of Midtown. Many of my friends bike or walk to work, and don't drive on weekends or nights to restaurants. That is what makes this neighborhood desirable. They still do want to own a car even if they use it less. This is Atlanta, you need a car. I use mine maybe twice a week. My friends use them to go to work, but not much else. That takes a significant amount of cars off the road in and of itself.

You used to have good opinions on this board, but you are losing respect all around with your ridiculous ideas that one of the few places in the metro that is set up to handle this type of growth, I.E. transit, walking infrastructure, an actual street grid. shouldn't have it.

Those are the arguments to make in favor of these new projects, and I am glad to hear them.

I'm not opposed to these projects, but it has to be recognized that they are dramatically altering the character of Midtown. That may be for the good, but care needs to be taken that all the stakeholders have a voice in the process.

[erick295]

Originally Posted by arjay57

However, the fact that developer is including a 1,500 space parking garage acknowledges that most of the new residents will be driving.

No, it acknowledges that most of the new residents will own cars. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll drive them every day. I only drive mine a couple times a week. Do you know why everyone needs a car? Because Atlanta is too spread out. Do you know what the solution to that is? Density. Midtown and Downtown have heavy rail and a street grid. They can handle density better than any other part of Atlanta.

I really don't understand your logic dude. The days of urban decay are over and Midtown can only grow if people want to live there. If traffic gets bad and more people keep moving in, it's because they don't care. It either doesn't affect them or they've decided the pros outweigh the cons. Why are you opposed to that? Do you think they're doing something morally wrong, or do you just think they shouldn't have the right to live in an area with high density? If the people who live there now are opposed to it changing, too bad. No one has an inherent right to live in the same home forever and never experience change. I struggle to sympathize with them when they can flip their property for probably 2-3x what they paid for it and move out to the suburbs if they want. The population is growing and all those new people have to live somewhere, do they not?

[gtjared]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Those are the arguments to make in favor of these new projects, and I am glad to hear them.

I'm not opposed to these projects, but it has to be recognized that they are dramatically altering the character of Midtown. That may be for the good, but care needs to be taken that all the stakeholders have a voice in the process.

Don't do that at the end and pretend you were on the correct side the whole time when the arguments against you win. People do not like that. Come off your faux moral high ground already. These points were put out multiple times and you kept arguing them.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I didn't say that parking has to be eliminated, but giving the developer the option to reduce parking spaces by 20-25% could be a start (and would reduce construction costs of the development).

It would definitely save the developers money on construction costs! Even if they could meet code with a 1200 space garage, though, that would still be a pretty substantial structure.

Parking takes up a good bit of land area as well. If you allocated one-third of this site (1.5 acres) to a parking deck, it would take 7-8 floors. If you shrink the parking deck to a one acre footprint, it'll take 10-11 stories. Maybe they can resolve this by going down and putting some of the parking underneath the buildings.

Of course when onsite parking is limited, you then have to deal with the question of where shoppers, residents, employees and hotel guests will park. Will they spill out into the single family neighborhoods nearby?

But those are engineering problems. If they're willing to spend the money there should be some solutions.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by erick295

No, it acknowledges that most of the new residents will own cars. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll drive them every day. I only drive mine a couple times a week. Do you know why everyone needs a car? Because Atlanta is too spread out. Do you know what the solution to that is? Density. Midtown and Downtown have heavy rail and a street grid. They can handle density better than any other part of Atlanta.

Some may drive less than others. I also agree that living intown can reduce the average length of driving trips.

However, the 14,000+ daily trips is the ITE average based on the observation of similar developments. In mixed use project like this, it should be reduced somewhat by the internal capture rate.

I have also heard some engineers say they don't they think those numbers are too high and that not all of that traffic materializes. Hopefully that will be the case, but for planning purposes it seems to me we need to look at the potential figures. That's underlined by the fact this is just one of many similar projects planned for the area, so we can't look at each one in isolation without taking their cumulative impact into account.

I really don't understand your logic dude. The days of urban decay are over and Midtown can only grow if people want to live there. If traffic gets bad and more people keep moving in, it's because they don't care. It either doesn't affect them or they've decided the pros outweigh the cons. Why are you opposed to that? Do you think they're doing something morally wrong, or do you just think they shouldn't have the right to live in an area with high density? If the people who live there now are opposed to it changing, too bad. No one has an inherent right to live in the same home forever and never experience change. I struggle to sympathize with them when they can flip their property for probably 2-3x what they paid for it and move out to the suburbs if they want. The population is growing and all those new people have to live somewhere, do they not?

Hey, I'm a proponent of good urban development. But we can't pretend that these new developments are happening in some theoretical zone where they don't dramatically impact the adjoining neighborhoods, both now and in the long term. The SFH's and small multi-family buildings are a huge part of what makes Midtown unique and attractive.

[gtjared]

Originally Posted by arjay57

The SFH's and small multi-family buildings are a huge part of what makes Midtown unique and attractive.

Hey guess what, these aren't going anywhere. I live in one and love them. This is on an empty lot in the highrise core. These people aren't going to be driving through Ansley Park or through the east midtown neighborhoods. There's no reason to drive through those. Do you think people are going to park in Ansley Park and walk over here?? What the hell is so hard for you to understand. I'd love to stop responding to you but your comments are so ridiculous I can't resist.

[erick295]

Originally Posted by arjay57

But we can't pretend that these new developments are happening in some theoretical zone where they don't dramatically impact the adjoining neighborhoods, both now and in the long term. The SFH's and small multi-family buildings are a huge part of what makes Midtown unique and attractive.

Who's pretending it won't have an impact? There's an enormous difference between saying something will have an impact and saying the impact will be bad, which is what you're implying. We're saying it will have an enormous impact that will net more desirability and economic growth for the core.

If enough people want those homes to stay, they will. If not, maybe they're not as attractive as you think they are. I doubt very many people would say Midtown is "unique and attractive" as a crime-infested sea of derelict buildings and vacant lots, which is the condition people left it in when they ran away to find elbow room in the burbs. I also doubt very many people who live in those adjacent neighborhoods have been happy living next to those conditions. I'm not sure why you're so pessimistic about the revival (on this forum at least), because it's a blessing for the entire core.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by gtjared

I've seen this as well. Someone just likes to stir up issues here. No one would give that argument the time of day on the other forum. I'm done responding to it here.

The best part is they agree with me on the other forum because I have a different user name, or maybe it's just because it's over there.

IMO one can trace the belief in "elbow room" to the idea of Manifest Destiny. Old habits die hard.

[arjay57]

I am amazed at the anger (and personal vitriol) that erupts whenever someone sounds a note of caution.

I'll freely admit that I'm a traditionalist and an advocate for protecting the city's old neighborhoods.

Can't we talk about the impact of new development without folks resorting to derisive and insulting language?

[gtjared]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am amazed at the anger (and personal vitriol) that erupts whenever someone sounds a note of caution.

I'll freely admit that I'm a traditionalist and an advocate for protecting the city's old neighborhoods.

Can't we talk about the impact of new development without folks resorting to derisive and insulting language?

And Arjay pulls the victim. Who would have guessed that typical move. At least be a little more creative Arjay, you've had plenty of time.

The reason people get angry is the lack of logic that you use and you barely listen when it's presented. If it wasn't a typical thing maybe people would be a little more patient.