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That is very interesting. The teachers that I know who have been with APS for 15 years are making about 50k. Hmmm. I am now curious and will look into this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Can't speak for other school systems but 15 years experience with a masters degree pays $83,925 with Atlanta Public Schools.
You also get medical, dental and vision, life insurance, disability, 12 paid holidays, 1 day of sick leave per month, I day of annual leave per month and a retirement plan, etc.
That's not so terrible if you are getting summers off.
That is very interesting. The teachers that I know who have been with APS for 15 years are making about 50k. Hmmm. I am now curious and will look into this!
Maybe I am reading this wrong, LS, but that's what it looks like to me.
Thanks very much! This is good information. I am glad you brought this to my attention. This seems like much better pay than past pay for teachers. I will pass this on to the long-time teachers that I know as they mentioned their pay was low. I wonder if there has been a change in the pay scale that might have not been retroactively given to existing teachers? In any case, I am looking into this. Thanks for the information!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Maybe I am reading this wrong, LS, but that's what it looks like to me.
Actually, the best teachers are often those that love teaching, and they don't want to be administrators. They want to be in the nitty gritty working directly with kids doing the teaching. Those are the folk we don't want to lose. For some, being in the classroom is very important and it is their forte. We should not punish that bc it is the most important part of the chain. I personally think administrators are overpaid.
76K in Chicago? Wow. That sounds great for them (assuming you don't have to be a week from retirement age to get the 76K). )
You know, before I married a teacher, I thought they had gravy jobs. My eyes have been opened. Do you know that during summer, even though they are not under contract and not getting paid, many of them are working on lesson plans for the fall? Also, when they have two weeks for winter break, they are working one of those weeks, at least many of the goods ones are. I was just talking with a teacher on spring break who had worked 8 hour days the first three business days of her spring break. And then alot of the time when the kids are out, teachers are at school for mandatory trainings and meetings. For example, teachers usually do not get out of school for at least a week after the kids gets out. Some have to stay later to do other things like when the teacher is an IB teacher, alot of time, the teacher has to stay over during the break, when the teacher is not getting paid, to get taining and certification so the school will have enough certified teachers to keep the certification for the next year.
Then, let me tell you about the administration that makes the teachers do all type of extra club stuff for the school OR ELSE IT AFFECTS THE TEACHER'S EVALUATION. Is that fair? That teachers are made to head this club or that club after school is over or the principal takes it out on the teacher during evaluation time? It is not part of the teacher's job but they have to do it ...or else. And they get no extra money for being away from their families and having to do that extra work. No extra money whatsoever...because it's not part of their job. And job security is not what you might think it is. it is very easy not to have your contract signed after year end. They are on a yearly contract schedule, you know. It is not at all like working at the Post Office or at the City Office or something of that nature.
Then there are all the kids getting passed to you who cannot even freaking read bc of other failures by other teachers and parents and YOU get taxed with trying to make the kid pass the CRCT or else YOU are not a good teacher. Needless to say, it can be a little stressful to have your job security based on whether kids are being passed to you who cannot even read. In public school, they cannot exclude children with behavior problems or those who cannot read or those who have learning difficulties or those who have ADHD and all the other stuff charter schools can conveniently sidestep if they want to do so. So you get handed all this and then when the children do not pass, everyone is looking at the teacher when the entire system of education has failed the child, from failing to pay for decent teachers, to stuffing 25 kindergarteners into a class, 30 kids in a 3rd grade with one teacher, etc. (other things I listed).
I used to think teachers had gravy jobs. Now I wonder why anyone would want to be a teacher with the current state of conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah
Good point. But looking at the other side, some may say its just like how government jobs have been traditionally, you make less but have a guaranteed pension and tenure so job security is very high + time off during summers. Believe it or not the average teacher salary in Chicago is $76k (and in the recent past they all went on strike for higher wages), I can only imagine what principals and administrators make. Does that allow students to excel. If a teacher can't be let go for poor performance you could argue you don't get the benefit you are looking for.
Also, in the teaching profession, being a teacher is not the top of the career ladder, those that pursue promotions move on to be administrators that may pay quite well.
Thanks very much! This is good information. I am glad you brought this to my attention. This seems like much better pay than past pay for teachers. I will pass this on to the long-time teachers that I know as they mentioned their pay was low. I wonder if there has been a change in the pay scale that might have not been retroactively given to existing teachers? In any case, I am looking into this. Thanks for the information!
Good teachers deserve to be paid well.
If you're pulling a base salary of $84,000 and the benefits are worth an additional 20% or so, that's a $100K package. Not too shabby for a 10 month contract.
Of course APS is the Rolls-Royce of school systems. I don't know how others stack up.
I agree completely. I am now wondering why those who I know who have been doing this for a long time (more than one person) is pulling down about 50K. I totally agree that 84K + 20% in benefits is pretty sweet for a 10 month contract!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Good teachers deserve to be paid well.
If you're pulling a base salary of $84,000 and the benefits are worth an additional 20% or so, that's a $100K package. Not too shabby for a 10 month contract.
Of course APS is the Rolls-Royce of school systems. I don't know how others stack up.
Thanks for the insight. If I came across bashing teachers I did not mean to, I was just bringing up the other side for discussion. No doubt they are important jobs and tough ones at that.
I don't have any inside knowledge but you often read of teachers who can't be fired (even in the APS cheating scandal they all were entitled to a hearing) and I think thats what irks many in the private sector who are use to working 50, 60 hours a week with no extra pay and no job security. At least in some states don't teachers get some type of tenure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer
Noah,
Actually, the best teachers are often those that love teaching, and they don't want to be administrators. They want to be in the nitty gritty working directly with kids doing the teaching. Those are the folk we don't want to lose. For some, being in the classroom is very important and it is their forte. We should not punish that bc it is the most important part of the chain. I personally think administrators are overpaid.
76K in Chicago? Wow. That sounds great for them (assuming you don't have to be a week from retirement age to get the 76K). )
You know, before I married a teacher, I thought they had gravy jobs. My eyes have been opened. Do you know that during summer, even though they are not under contract and not getting paid, many of them are working on lesson plans for the fall? Also, when they have two weeks for winter break, they are working one of those weeks, at least many of the goods ones are. I was just talking with a teacher on spring break who had worked 8 hour days the first three business days of her spring break. And then alot of the time when the kids are out, teachers are at school for mandatory trainings and meetings. For example, teachers usually do not get out of school for at least a week after the kids gets out. Some have to stay later to do other things like when the teacher is an IB teacher, alot of time, the teacher has to stay over during the break, when the teacher is not getting paid, to get taining and certification so the school will have enough certified teachers to keep the certification for the next year.
Then, let me tell you about the administration that makes the teachers do all type of extra club stuff for the school OR ELSE IT AFFECTS THE TEACHER'S EVALUATION. Is that fair? That teachers are made to head this club or that club after school is over or the principal takes it out on the teacher during evaluation time? It is not part of the teacher's job but they have to do it ...or else. And they get no extra money for being away from their families and having to do that extra work. No extra money whatsoever...because it's not part of their job. And job security is not what you might think it is. it is very easy not to have your contract signed after year end. They are on a yearly contract schedule, you know. It is not at all like working at the Post Office or at the City Office or something of that nature.
Then there are all the kids getting passed to you who cannot even freaking read bc of other failures by other teachers and parents and YOU get taxed with trying to make the kid pass the CRCT or else YOU are not a good teacher. Needless to say, it can be a little stressful to have your job security based on whether kids are being passed to you who cannot even read. In public school, they cannot exclude children with behavior problems or those who cannot read or those who have learning difficulties or those who have ADHD and all the other stuff charter schools can conveniently sidestep if they want to do so. So you get handed all this and then when the children do not pass, everyone is looking at the teacher when the entire system of education has failed the child, from failing to pay for decent teachers, to stuffing 25 kindergarteners into a class, 30 kids in a 3rd grade with one teacher, etc. (other things I listed).
I used to think teachers had gravy jobs. Now I wonder why anyone would want to be a teacher with the current state of conditions.
Noah,
I appreciate your perspective. This was exactly my perspective before I married a teacher. But you are also right. There are many teachers and administrators that suck and they do not deserve to have job security. I was teaching was more competitive instead of being what seems to be a spoils system based on whether you can hide behind a union or you know someone and can keep your job bc you are in good with the principal. I admit this goes on and it helps the students none. The worst thing anyone can do, to me, is waste a child's potential to learn. There are alot of bad teachers that are not passionate about what they are doing and they should be out. I completely agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah
Thanks for the insight. If I came across bashing teachers I did not mean to, I was just bringing up the other side for discussion. No doubt they are important jobs and tough ones at that.
I don't have any inside knowledge but you often read of teachers who can't be fired (even in the APS cheating scandal they all were entitled to a hearing) and I think thats what irks many in the private sector who are use to working 50, 60 hours a week with no extra pay and no job security. At least in some states don't teachers get some type of tenure.
Jeoff,
What is this of which you are referring? I am not from Atlanta so I do not understand the claim that is being made here or any historical information. I wanted to ask bc I have heard this sentiment before on this board relative to Dekalb County (but it is usually a vague reference to somethings in the past like the below of which I am not aware) and I want to understand better what it is that ppl think happened in the past and how that relates to today in that county. Please elaborate if you do not mind. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeoff
Well, it didn't help that Dekalb County was essentially at war with itself for about 50 years. By court order, race was factored into every decision that was made within the school system. Education took a back seat to social engineering, and racial spoils took a backseat to governing. Maybe it paved the way for other school systems to integrate in a more positive way, but within the county it left scars.
Even before the rezoning, DHMS (then known as Shamrock) struggled. I think that a pretty high percentage of Fernbank families opt out of public school. at least for middle school.
Additionally, the model of totally segregating gifted kids, which happens almost exclusively at a few DeKalb middle schools, often leads to a discrepancy in quality of teachers. In most metro systems, gifted middle schoolers are served in one or two classes labeled gifted and then in blended classes for the other subjects.
l live in Fulton, not Dekalb, but this came up a couple of times last week and I'm wondering if it is true that DHMS preferentially places the majority of the Fernbank kids into the gifted program whether deserving or not. A friend of mine (whose daughter is at Fernbank) told me this and that all the other parents in her child's class believe this also and I really thought it couldn't be true. But then a few days later, a co-worker told me her son, who will be starting at DHMS in the fall will be in gifted and she was angry because her's son's Fernbank teacher had taken her aside and told her he wasn't qualified for gifted at DHMS but they were going to place him in the program anyways. I guess the teacher thought she would be grateful but she was just really mad that she wasn't allowed to just think her kid was gifted. If my kid was from another feeder elementary school (one of the 'undesirables' that I guess the Fernbank teachers are trying to segregate their kids from), I'd really be up in arms about this.
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