MARTA Expansion into Clayton = Long awaited Commuter Rail? (Atlanta: cost, money)

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by demonta4

The only reason Clayton wants to do 0.5 percent is because it has one of the highest sales tax in Georgia. State law requires that sales tax can't be over 7 percent. But the new legislation they passed can make the sales tax Clayton passes up to 2 percent.

I understand what you are saying, but Clayton County needs to understand that choosing to pay only an 0.5% sales tax means that the county will most assuredly have no chance of receiving rail transit service as long as the county-by-county sales tax remains the dominant form of funding for MARTA.

That's because the full 1% sales tax is currently inadequate to fund bus and rail transit service in Fulton and DeKalb counties. Clayton County needs to understand that an 0.5% sales tax may barely fund a very-basic level of local bus service at best and that rail transit service will likely be completely out of the question.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

That's a major part of the problem with the way that we approach transit around these parts.

Transit cannot be viable (both financially and from a public opinion standpoint) over the long-term by basically just aiming to serve people who cannot drive (very low-income transit-dependent riders who have no other choice but to ride transit to get around until they can gain enough income to 'escape' from an under-funded bare-bones transit system of last-resort).

Transit must have choice riders (people who can drive if they don't ride transit) and the abundant revenues they bring to remain viable both financially and in the court of public opinion.

We must actively and aggressively target higher-income choice riders (with very-high levels of transit service, upscale transit-oriented development along transit lines, etc) if we want transit to be viable both financially and in the court of public opinion.

It is lower-income transit-dependent riders who benefit the most when a transit system collects abundant amounts of revenue from choice riders to remain financially viable and operational at the high level that the entire community needs.

Choice riders can indeed become part of the strategy for MARTA expansion into Clayton, but only if this expansion includes rail. For whatever reason, buses tend to have an even greater stigma about them than rail does, even though it's largely the same group of people who ride.

Question--what are the options for Clayton that would allow for MARTA expansion? Do they have to take the 1% no matter what, or is there a way to get bus-only for now with 0.5%? (Not that I want the latter; I just want to know what the possibilities are.)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Choice riders can indeed become part of the strategy for MARTA expansion into Clayton, but only if this expansion includes rail. For whatever reason, buses tend to have an even greater stigma about them than rail does, even though it's largely the same group of people who ride.

Question--what are the options for Clayton that would allow for MARTA expansion? Do they have to take the 1% no matter what, or is there a way to get bus-only for now with 0.5%? (Not that I want the latter; I just want to know what the possibilities are.)

Park n rides don't have a stigma.

But it would be nice if MARTA heavy rail could go into Clayton other than just the Clayton Co. part of the airport. Then more than just downtown would be connected.

[MattCW]

Any rail service to Clayton is at least 20 years away. The I-20 East and GA-400 projects are...well actual projects rather than wild conjecture and even they won't be here for about 15 years at least.

[demonta4]

The Commuter Rail to Lovejoy should've been here already, it was ahead of those other lines.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Choice riders can indeed become part of the strategy for MARTA expansion into Clayton, but only if this expansion includes rail. For whatever reason, buses tend to have an even greater stigma about them than rail does, even though it's largely the same group of people who ride.

That's an excellent point that buses tend to have a stigma attached to them much of the time.

But one of the reasons that buses often times tend to have a stigma attached to them is because we traditionally have not always done a great job of assertively (if not aggressively) targeting bus service at choice riders...
...Just like a large urban transit agency like MARTA has not necessarily always done a good job of targeting most of its transit service (both bus and rail) at choice riders, seeming instead to more-often target its service mostly at cash-limited transit-dependent riders, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

MARTA's failure to target its transit service at revenue-rich choice-riders is one of the very-major reasons why the agency has experienced steep declines in ridership and revenues in recent years. Though things seem to be finally turning around and heading in a positive direction at the long-troubled transit agency.

It should also be noted that GRTA Xpress seems to do a decent (but by no means exceptional) job at targeting their regional commuter express bus transit service at choice riders. Though like MARTA, GRTA Xpress definitely also needs to improve its efforts to attract (and retain) new riders.

Also like MARTA, GRTA Xpress also urgently needs to cultivate new and additional sources of revenue so that it can operate at the higher level that is needed for the agency to continue to have a positive impact on mobility throughout the community/metro region.

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Question--what are the options for Clayton that would allow for MARTA expansion? Do they have to take the 1% no matter what, or is there a way to get bus-only for now with 0.5%? (Not that I want the latter; I just want to know what the possibilities are.)

From what I understand and from what has seemingly been reported, Clayton County seems to have the option of only paying an 0.5% sales tax and seems to not have to pay the 1% sales tax that Fulton and DeKalb counties currently pay.

It basically appears that MARTA is willing to let Clayton County join the agency at an 0.5% sales tax rate.

It seems that MARTA and Fulton and DeKalb counties (and almost all parties involved) are willing to let Clayton County join the agency at a reduced sales tax rate because they understand how badly Clayton County is in need of transit service (any transit service...even a very-limited amount of bus service) after more than 4 years of no local bus service in a highly-impoverished urban/post-suburban county.

(...With 21.5% of the county's residents living below the poverty line, Clayton County has the highest countywide poverty rate in metro Atlanta.)

With the 0.5% sales tax rate, Clayton County would most likely only get a limited amount of bus service because that is all that the revenues from an 0.5% sales tax would be able to fund.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by demonta4

The Commuter Rail to Lovejoy should've been here already, it was ahead of those other lines.

I completely agree as the State of Georgia had long received funds from the Feds to operate commuter trains between Atlanta and Lovejoy. Commuter trains should have long been operating south of Atlanta by now.

Though, at this point in time and moving forward, with Clayton County being such an urbanized county and with the county and South Metro Atlanta in general needing the economic development and investment opportunities that come with transit, regional heavy rail transit service between Atlanta and the Atlanta Motor Speedway in Hampton is the best long-term high-capacity transit option for Clayton County.

Clayton County is an urban enough county that it needs regional heavy rail transit service, not just peak-hour commuter rail service.

Premium regional commuter rail service should operate from Hampton south to Griffin, Macon, Warner Robins and Perry.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Any rail service to Clayton is at least 20 years away. The I-20 East and GA-400 projects are...well actual projects rather than wild conjecture and even they won't be here for about 15 years at least.

Gotta start somewhere.

[cqholt]

MARTA did pitch to Clayton board that they could use the federal funding along with GDOT's funding to get the commuter rail implemented.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Gotta start somewhere.

My point is that we have probably 5-10 years to get the details of rail funding settled out. Possibly that could mean join now at 0.5% then increase it to 1% in a few years to get rail service.