MARTA Expansion into Clayton = Long awaited Commuter Rail? (Atlanta, Macon: home, buy)

[cqholt]

Commuter rail is a lot faster than HRT, by having a few stations spaced far apart the trains can move more people, quicker than HRT for a lot less price.

[LynnHarris]

"What kind of transit would a penny sales tax in Clayton County fund? MARTA says it'd pay for commuter rail connecting East Point to Jonesboro along an existing freight rail route and seven bus routes throughout the county..."


Full Story: MARTA pitches rail route, bus lines to Clayton as clock ticks | Atlanta News & Opinion Blog | Fresh Loaf | Creative Loafing Atlanta

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Commuter rail is a lot faster than HRT, by having a few stations spaced far apart the trains can move more people, quicker than HRT for a lot less price.

Not if it's using existing heavily-utilized freight trackage.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Not if it's using existing heavily-utilized freight trackage.

HRT and freight trains cannot run on the same tracks. HRT does not have the FTA mandated safety requirements to run with freight trains. Also it requires a third rail for power.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Not if it's using existing heavily-utilized freight trackage.

Sure it is. There are plenty of examples of commuter trains running on very heavily used freight trackage that are faster than any heavy rail system. Metra's BNSF line near Chicago is a great example of this.

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Sure it is. There are plenty of examples of commuter trains running on very heavily used freight trackage that are faster than any heavy rail system. Metra's BNSF line near Chicago is a great example of this.

I think people are missing the point of why HRT is better so I'm going to take this example. This line goes from downtown Chicago to Aurora, Il which is about 42 miles.

Driving Distance from Aurora, IL to Chicago, IL

From downtown Atlanta to Jonesboro is only about 17 miles.

Driving Distance from Jonesboro, GA to Atlanta, GA

Why do we need a commuter rail when there isn't a long commute?

Also, look at the schedule for the train here:

https://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/...dule.full.html

You see some decent frequency levels during rush hour but what about off peak... 30 minutes to an hour. Look at weekend service.... every HOUR on Saturdays and every TWO HOURS on Sundays!! Again coming from Macon yeah I can see that but coming from a location that close and having to wait that long for a train is ridiculous!!

Hell, people are fine with extending slow ***** LRT from Atlanta to Kennesaw and that's even further away.

Driving Distance from Kennesaw, GA to Atlanta, GA

Lets not forget something that is being worked on now, extending the Red line to Windward Pkwy in Alpharetta. That's 26 miles from Atlanta but HRT is ok there and not to Jonesboro?

Driving Distance from Alpharetta, GA to Atlanta, GA

[jsvh]

Commuter rail is cheaper much than HRT I assume. Anyone know the numbers? I think they could do more frequency if needed on the Commuter line.

There is no good existing rail line to use going up 400 for commuter. If they were building it from scratch then HRT should be the way to go for Clayton too. But they can get more bang for their buck with a commuter line since they have an existing rail.

I see this as a starter line that will eventually run from Macon to the MMPT. And I think as the county grows their could be a case for and HRT extension as well but I don't think there is enough funding to support a new HRT line in Clayton currently.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

I think people are missing the point of why HRT is better so I'm going to take this example. This line goes from downtown Chicago to Aurora, Il which is about 42 miles.

Driving Distance from Aurora, IL to Chicago, IL

From downtown Atlanta to Jonesboro is only about 17 miles.

Driving Distance from Jonesboro, GA to Atlanta, GA

Why do we need a commuter rail when there isn't a long commute?

Because it's not stopping at Jonesboro, the commuter rail will go on to Lovejoy and Griffin which are long distances. You also have to look at population density and rail capacity. The current MARTA frequencies of 10 minutes during rush hour mean 6,300 people per hour capacity. That's a LOT! South of Atlanta isn't exactly a high density area. Take a look at the costs as well, commuter rail costs up to about $20 Million per mile (and that's the very high end). HRT costs around $110 Million per mile.

Also, look at the schedule for the train here:

https://metrarail.com/metra/en/home/...dule.full.html

You see some decent frequency levels during rush hour but what about off peak... 30 minutes to an hour. Look at weekend service.... every HOUR on Saturdays and every TWO HOURS on Sundays!! Again coming from Macon yeah I can see that but coming from a location that close and having to wait that long for a train is ridiculous!!

The two hours is a bit much, but for the long distance the train runs, that's not all that bad. You don't need 10 or even 20 minute headways all day long running down to Griffin, that's just silly. Yes, the New York City Subway heavy rail runs that far, but that's because NYC is just that big so you can run 20 miles and still be providing intra-city transportation.

Hell, people are fine with extending slow ***** LRT from Atlanta to Kennesaw and that's even further away.

Driving Distance from Kennesaw, GA to Atlanta, GA

People were "fine" with it, because at least it was something better than buses. I spoke out against using LRT as opposed to HRT or commuter rail, but was willing to settle for LRT if that's all they were going to get.

Lets not forget something that is being worked on now, extending the Red line to Windward Pkwy in Alpharetta. That's 26 miles from Atlanta but HRT is ok there and not to Jonesboro?

Driving Distance from Alpharetta, GA to Atlanta, GA

Because there are no existing rail corridors to put commuter rail on, and that area is very dense, far denser than the area south of Atlanta.

[cqholt]

According to the cl article the cost difference for commuter rail between east point and jonesboro and extending HRT along the same corridor is $125M. I say just build HRT. Then there is no need for a new maintenance yard and Clayton residents can get downtown and points north without transferring. On the other side if the rail is extended downtown then go with commuter rail.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by cqholt

According to the cl article the cost difference for commuter rail between east point and jonesboro and extending HRT along the same corridor is $125M. I say just build HRT. Then there is no need for a new maintenance yard and Clayton residents can get downtown and points north without transferring. On the other side if the rail is extended downtown then go with commuter rail.

Some of those numbers are a bit suspect to me for other reasons, but anyways re-read the article more carefully. That is not what the article says. The article is comparing two different options for commuter rail only. (One of which I would expect MattCW would like!)

HRT would be far more expensive.... enough that given the sales tax money involved no one has even put it on the table yet.