Report: The Exurbs Are Building Again, With A Vengeance! (Atlanta: sale, salons)

[hautemomma]

Originally Posted by Dkeating

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I think it might be easy to overstate how much "COA schools suck" and underestimate the educational experience a kid from well-off parents can have there. By the time Grant Park schools are considered to be unequivocally good--when they have good test scores and greatschools scores--someone will really have to pay out the wazoo to live there, and it's expensive enough already.

One cannot underestimate the role of solid parenting, their respective educational/economic levels and their influence in ensuring their children have access to quality educational opportunities. However, numbers rarely lie, and transplants (hundreds of thousands of them) venture to Metro Atlanta with kids in tow. One of the first things they examine are school districts. We look at test scores, parental ratings on various websites, levels of parental involvement and general reputational clues to pinpoint our efforts and direct our dollars in certain locations. For many, that means living in the suburbs. Most families (even upper middle class ones by income alone) are not "ballin'" (LOL), so the idea of paying twice as much for 50 percent less space (also with no yard or garage) in a poor or mediocre school district and ponying up the equivalent of college tuition for K-12 for many years is a very hard sell.

One day, COA public schools may have the reputation and performance of the better schools in Cobb or Gwinnett. However, today's families with children right now cannot wait on that. That is an unknown that may or may not happen. That's like gambling with your child's current experience and future prospects. I know some couples with kids who plan to buy properties in hot or upcoming areas, rent them out in the meantime, and cash out on both fronts when the time comes.

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by cqholt

YES YES YES, keep moving farther out creating congestion and watch those housing prices drop.

Well affordable housing is pretty important to a lot of people these days. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Its all about what you can afford and are willing to compromise. This is the case for intowners and exurbanites alike. Move intown in the core and you'll have to sacrifice square footage if on a limited budget, but the upside is convenience, theoretically shorter commutes, city ammenities. Exurbanites are enjoying a very low price per square foot with abundant space and privacy, but the cost is long commutes and sprawl. Part of the beauty of metro Atlanta is housing choice and diversity. There literally is something for everyone and I don't think that's such a bad thing. Don't forget that as the exurbs mature and get filled in sprawl will decrease. Ansley Park was once considered an "exurb". Its the evolution of our region.

[jsvh]

The argument against ITP schools is a false one. Decatur's system is tops in the state. Grady cluster beats out many OTP. Jackson High cluster is surging too and has properties available for cheaper than OTP. There is a reason so many young families are choosing to live intown now.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fermie125

Well affordable housing is pretty important to a lot of people these days. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Its all about what you can afford and are willing to compromise. This is the case for intowners and exurbanites alike. Move intown in the core and you'll have to sacrifice square footage if on a limited budget, but the upside is convenience, theoretically shorter commutes, city ammenities. Exurbanites are enjoying a very low price per square foot with abundant space and privacy, but the cost is long commutes and sprawl. Part of the beauty of metro Atlanta is housing choice and diversity. There literally is something for everyone and I don't think that's such a bad thing. Don't forget that as the exurbs mature and get filled in sprawl will decrease. Ansley Park was once considered an "exurb". Its the evolution of our region.

I am fine with people wanting to move further out to afford more sq ft. It makes sense and as noted, it is good people have that choice. But if you are going to do a long commute, you should be paying for it, not tax payers.

[hautemomma]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The argument against ITP schools is a false one. Decatur's system is tops in the state. Grady cluster beats out many OTP. Jackson High cluster is surging too and has properties available for cheaper than OTP. There is a reason so many young families are choosing to live intown now.

You mean the City of Decatur, right? Those are just a few mentions out of an entire city. For many, if they cannot get in the right charter, they plan to exit.

[hautemomma]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I am fine with people wanting to move further out to afford more sq ft. It makes sense and as noted, it is good people have that choice. But if you are going to do a long commute, you should be paying for it, not tax payers.

You don't think people in COA use I-75, I-20 or I-85 outside the perimeter? I do not understand your argument. People do pay for it - it's called gas and taxes. What about people who traverse the area to get to another state? The entire country of highways and interstates for that matter?

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I am fine with people wanting to move further out to afford more sq ft. It makes sense and as noted, it is good people have that choice. But if you are going to do a long commute, you should be paying for it, not tax payers.

I've often pondered what having an inter-county toll would do to help (a toll when you cross a county line). That might sound ridiculous, but on further thought it would solve a lot of conjestion problems. Take Cobb County for instance. Thousands of commuters from Paulding and Cherokee come across the county line into Cobb to go to work and completely slam the county roads. They probably account for 30-40% of the cars on the road in Cobb. But Cobb residents pay for road expansions through a penny sales tax, so Cherokee and Paulding commuters get a free ride. The same can be said for Cobb commuters going into Fulton. Might not be realistic but its interesting to think about.

[jsvh]

Gas taxes only pay for a third of roads. The rest is coming from general fund sources like property tax that comes disproportionately from higher land values intown where people have shorter commutes and use less roads every day.

[Dkeating]

Originally Posted by hautemomma

However, numbers rarely lie, and transplants (hundreds of thousands of them) venture to Metro Atlanta with kids in tow. One of the first things they examine are school districts. We look at test scores, parental ratings on various websites, levels of parental involvement and general reputational clues to pinpoint our efforts and direct our dollars in certain locations.

Numbers may not lie, but they can obscure the truth. If you look at Northside High's or Grady High's average test scores, they're not that great, but that's because some of Northside or Grady's kids are from the poorest families in the city. Some, on the other hand, are from some of the wealthiest families in the city. The affluent kids--and I know not everybody's ballin', I'm speaking of relative affluence in the region--score as high or higher on the SAT as kids from the best schools in the metro. It could be that the educational experience at say, a Parkside or Toomer, is not as good as that at [insert East Cobb, North Fulton, or Gwinnett elementary school here], but the difference for a child from an affluent family might not be enough to justify moving to a place you prefer less.

My concern with picking a "good" school district in a place like Gwinnett is that there's a tendency for the more affluent people to move away farther up and for the once-"hot" schools to be considered sub-par. In Grant Park, the schools are on an upward trajectory and people want to live there for reasons other than the schools, which makes them more reluctant to leave. Some people will move away for elementary school or middle school, but more people will be moving in, and once a critical mass of affluent parents are in the district you have an Oakhurst situation on your hands, where people are buying a shed to tear down for $300K.

[cqholt]

It feels like people ITP never leave ITP, as if it's an island. That is unfortunate -- and insular, the opposite of progressive.

We have everything we need ITP and have no need to travel OTP.