The loss of sunlight: midtown (landscaping, neighborhood, zoning)

[netdragon]

Something that midtown should learn from both downtown and Manhatten: If they don't start setting some set-back requirements, there's not going to be much sunlight getting through the towers when redevelopment is completed.

This may sound like a joke, but it's a serious issue. It makes things seem gloomy. It's the reason Manhatten has set-back requirements now (e.g. only the first ten or so floors can be done up to the sidewalk)

Is that something that is being considered at this point?

[jsvh]

It has rarely felt gloomy on a sunny day in any major city downtown I have been in. Just because you are sitting in the shade doesn't mean it is no longer a beautiful sunny day.

Setting back buildings would be a big hit to walk ability of an area. If you don't like tall buildings then you probably shouldn't be in Midtown / Downtown.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Setting back buildings would be a big hit to walk ability of an area. If you don't like tall buildings then you probably shouldn't be in Midtown / Downtown.

It wouldn't since Manhatten-style set-backs don't affect the lower floors of building. They only affect the "air rights" over the buildings.

Originally Posted by jsvh

If you don't like tall buildings then you probably shouldn't be in Midtown / Downtown.

That isn't valid when Manhatten has set-back requirements. Midtown < Manhatten.

[cwkimbro]

If anything Midtown has much stricter regulations than Manhattan or Downtown in preserving space.

Look over existing development using Google Earth. You'll notice most towers are connected to buildings only a few stories tall. You'll also notice much more open space next to buldings.

Builders have to preserve part of the lot, but there are alot of ways they can do it.

Admittedly, I haven't kept up with this for 3 or 4 years in detail.

Go here: Resource Center

This is the CID's resource center for developers if you scroll down you will find the text of development requirements for different zoning districts in Midtown.

[netdragon]

jsvh,

More here: 1916 Zoning Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here: NYC Zoning - Zoning Districts

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

This is the CID's resource center for developers if you scroll down you will find the text of development requirements for different zoning districts in Midtown.

Hmm, yeah they are quite detailed. Never saw these before. e.g. http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/doc...lines_rdcd.pdf and http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/doc...egulations.pdf

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

It has rarely felt gloomy on a sunny day in any major city downtown I have been in. Just because you are sitting in the shade doesn't mean it is no longer a beautiful sunny day.

Setting back buildings would be a big hit to walk ability of an area. If you don't like tall buildings then you probably shouldn't be in Midtown / Downtown.

He's right... I forget what year it was exactly, but Manhattan had a famous moment for city planning history buffs.

In the very early years of building the first skyscrapers (which are small by modern standards) there were several incidents where a developer made large buildings with not just height, but long foot prints that spanned the whole block (keep in mind blocks in Manhattan tend to be short going north-south, but long between boulevards going east-west).

The buildings completely killed anyway for even small amounts of sunlight with a southern angle to get through to the street level at all. After a few years of controversy and neighborhood outrage they created strict requirements that led to most buildings being tall and narrow. You'll notice when your in a skyscraper the buildings next butt up against each other. There are always set-backs in the air.

Just about the entire country copied those regulations ever sense to some degree or another. Today most people don't even know they are there, even though it played a big role in changing the way skyscrapers were made.

EDIT: netdragon got it! The 1916 zoning resolution!

[netdragon]

In the midtown guidelines, the only step-down requirements I see are when they adjoin residential.

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Just about the entire country copied those regulations ever sense to some degree or another. Today most people don't even know they are there, even though it played a big role in changing the way skyscrapers were made.

EDIT: netdragon got it! The 1916 zoning resolution!

Ahh, so this is a de-facto thing now?

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by netdragon

In the midtown guidelines, the only step-down requirements I see are when they adjoin residential.



Ahh, so this is a de-facto thing now?

Yes it is pretty universal since the 20s.

There are many requirements you just have to find them and they aren't always listed out neatly in the easiest to find way.

For the SP-16 commercial areas buildings can only take up 85% of the lot. There must be 20% minimum of public space.

For designated storefront streets the facade is a maximum of 24 feet.

There is a minimum sidewalk width creating the front set back. There is a minimum landscaping requirement further creating a set back.

The rear set back is 20 feet.

Mixed in there are some land intensity use ratios and there are gross floor areas maximums relative to the lot size that can't be exceeded. Don't ask me for details on this part... I really haven't kept up with these details.... I just know it plays a part.

[cqholt]

The sun here is a lot higher in the sky than in northern cities. The concern of lose of sunlight is no concern since the sun is higher in the sky.