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I've witnessed gentrification in some of the worst blocks in Harlem, many areas of the worst neighborhoods in Brooklyn, the U street area in DC so I know if it can be done over there in the English Ave area. If there is true value in that area (which I think it is), the necessary resources will be employed to clean that area up.
Of course any area can gentrify as long as the ground is solid enough to build houses on. The problem is that there's only so much capital to go around, and it usually takes the path of least resistance. That area is one of the worst in Atlanta and would be one of the hardest and riskiest to invest in. Unlike NYC or DC, we're not running out of room. With so many better options in other up-and-coming neighborhoods, I doubt that area will improve any time soon. I imagine it will look very much the same 20-30 years from now.
With all the growth Atlanta has been seeing, I guess it's easy to think of it as inevitable... don't forget that poverty and drug addiction are also inevitable, and Atlanta is always going to have bad neighborhoods.
This part of town has always... intrigued me. The location is phenomenal, so close to downtown and midtown, yet worlds away as far as desirability goes. What has caused this part of town to be an established haven of drugs and prostitution?
Many people bring up the abandoned houses, for good reason. They aren't maintained, they lower surrounding property values, and the dominos continue to fall. Why are there so many abandoned houses in the area? It had to start somewhere.
If I were to start pointing fingers (and I'm guessing here), I would imagine it started with lax police coverage or maybe it was an area chosen to be a "zone of tolerance" by the APD. Was it just under-served by the APD because it was historically a predominantly Black part of town? Crime became almost welcome and then people started leaving, abandoning houses they couldn't sell. I don't know what happened because it was the way it is when I started paying attention.
Its a frequent topic and it seems like one that could be remedied, but it is allowed to fester. I blame the city. The police could stop the traffic VERY EASILY by pulling "suspicious people" over regularly. If buying becomes too risky, the dealers won't have much money to make. But the users don't just dry up and the dealers don't just give up. The problem will move somewhere else.
I think the real story here is that things stay relatively contained to the bluff so they just let it happen. Contain the problem. Is that fair to Vine City / English Ave? Is it a better option to tolerate it as these areas have already adjusted (abandoned their homes) to this local economy? There has to be something else.
If black guys are selling the crap, how is that racial profiling?!
Excellent report by Mark Winne BTW ... please post links to the other installments.
I think he was referring to the white suburban kids who come in the area.Pulling the over would be racial profiling.I have seen police do this to some white including white friends of mine who have told me it happened to them.
I have lived in Vine City in a house I bought brand new built in 2005.I live on a street with 2 blocks of Wal-Mart and the Ashby train Station.Also with 4 blocks of The Atlanta University Center.
In the 90's my father was a Dean at Morris Brown,then later Clark Atanta University.
While he was there it was very common to hear of students getting killed ,robbed and assaulted weekly.
I can promise you that this area is VASTLY different than it was in the 90's and even since 2005 it is better.
Why?
Well there are no more low income projects like the what was Eagan Homes ,Herndon Homes and University Homes that used to surround the area with their crime and destitution and its evident because the out of control crime that spilled to other parts of the city has also retreated to more confined areas of the worst parts of these neighborhoods resulting in the city having the lowest crime rate in 30- 40 years
Vine City USED to be the more notoriously bad part of the area and it still is tied closely to what many people consider the worst part of the city today,but I can tell you as a resident of the last almost 9 years and privy to the going ons in the area prior,its has gotten much better.You can actually walk around almost all of Vine city and the only place you MAY see one or two prostitute is on Lowery BLVD.
English Avenue has seen very litte significant development in years.Especially if you compare it to Vine City where now you are seeing more upwardly young whites and more upwardly blacks like myself who like the convenience and low cost to live well and be almost debt free.
I said English Ave has seen little improvement because though small,it has gotten some signs of gentrification.
From Northside Drive just before it intersects with Joseph E. Boone(Ivan Allen Jr)LVD,on Jones Street you will see the typical 2 story houses with the double balcony's you see throughout the city.Just on the edge of English Ave clsest to Northside Drive and less than a mile fro Georgia Tech.Imagine that..Hmmm...how convenient for GA TEch Staff to live close to work and students to drive to get drugs between classes.
How do I know?Because when I cut through there on my way home,one of my former Tech students who never did any drugs that I know of ,was driving around in the neighborhood when I saw him.He had no reason to be over there as this was 2 years afer he had moved out of my house in Vine City.
I know he was buying drugs because he told me he wanted to buy weed but his appearance suggested that he had been doing something harder.Sad,Really saddens mebecause I have not seen or heard from him in over 2 years since that incident and he is/was such a bright talented polite guy that had a very positive energy.
This is one reason I get really angry with some of these Republican Conservatives.They think these problems of the "hoods" are "those people's problems" and not theirs.They fail to see how "those people's issues" affect and spread in there so called perfect worlds.
Someone mentioned they were driving on Simpson which is now Joseph E. Boone and someone threw something at them.I can assure you that this was a fluke because I have had friends visit me for 9 years and not ONE had a problem EVER.
I drive my Audi convertible with the top down and have NEVER had a problem other than some "wassup" and "can I get a dollar" kind of stuff.
I have finally decided to move to a house that my parents owned when I was a teenager in Rex ,Georgia near Stockbride/Fairview GA.
I own it fully with no mortgage and its 3 times as big as my hose on a 1acre lot.
I never hear or see any ghetto behavior and its so quiet you really can literally hear a pin drop outside.
At first it was different and even frightening because of the reputation but I quickly realized that it was no where as bad as its reputation in the past was.
Im gonna miss being in the city but this is best for me to save money to move into a house I really want and in a neighborhood I really want to be in versus buying a cheap places to live.
If I have to sacrifice by moving back to the suburbs for a couple of years to buy my dream house in the city,then so be it.Suburbs begrudgingly, it is.
Its been okay and the experience has opened my eyes to an life that I was fortunate to not have ever had live or know about before I moved there.I am grateful for the appearence and I think that I am more rounded because of it.
red dog couldn't do nothing with the bluff vine city back in the day when I was a kid when all the scattered sites(smaller forms of projects) and projects was up in the area
ha another little small special on Da Bluff and the whole English ave Vine city area. Everybody had a solution to do something with the area before I was born(1985) and after I was born and none of it worked not even REDDOG hell they was in it for the drug money and drugs and that was in every place the went from bankhead to east lake meadows to Joyland to the west end to campbelton rd .Da Bluff isn't as bad as it used to be and the Heroin problem been there its always be the HQ for Atlanta Heroin hell it stretched all the way to Herndon Homes. they just recycling a old news story and the city has gotten millions just for the area from the feds that goes back to the early 90s when they designated it a weed and seed community and nobody seen those millions besides the Falcons
If I were to start pointing fingers (and I'm guessing here), I would imagine it started with lax police coverage or maybe it was an area chosen to be a "zone of tolerance" by the APD. Was it just under-served by the APD because it was historically a predominantly Black part of town? Crime became almost welcome and then people started leaving, abandoning houses they couldn't sell. I don't know what happened because it was the way it is when I started paying attention.
The police could stop the traffic VERY EASILY by pulling "suspicious people" over regularly.
I really don't know what else the police can do. The Bluff always has police everywhere. I've seen random roadblocks on J P Brawley more than once in the middle of the day. Cops standing in the middle of the street just checking people riding thru. I've even seen US Marshalls over there in full tactical gear in the middle of the day. So I'm not sure what else they can do at this point. And that's just during the day, you already know the police presence is higher at night. And they do a good job busting up the drug crews that sell over there but the problem is another one will just come and take its place. The Bluff is an open territory, no particular group or person really runs it. A crew will carve out a few corners and blocks here or there and get wiped out by rivals or the police will bust it after about a year or so, and the same cycle gets repeated over and over. The issue with the Bluff is that it is a destination for Heroin. Suburban and Rural J's from Alabama to the Carolinas know about the Bluff. So that means that the area is basically million dollar real estate in the drug game, and as long as that much money can be made over there selling Heroin, then you will have people over there selling it. I don't care what the cops do because it wont work. There will always be very willing sellers and a ***T load of willing buyers.
I really don't know what else the police can do. The Bluff always has police everywhere. I've seen random roadblocks on J P Brawley more than once in the middle of the day. Cops standing in the middle of the street just checking people riding thru. I've even seen US Marshalls over there in full tactical gear in the middle of the day. So I'm not sure what else they can do at this point. And that's just during the day, you already know the police presence is higher at night. And they do a good job busting up the drug crews that sell over there but the problem is another one will just come and take its place. The Bluff is an open territory, no particular group or person really runs it. A crew will carve out a few corners and blocks here or there and get wiped out by rivals or the police will bust it after about a year or so, and the same cycle gets repeated over and over. The issue with the Bluff is that it is a destination for Heroin. Suburban and Rural J's from Alabama to the Carolinas know about the Bluff. So that means that the area is basically million dollar real estate in the drug game, and as long as that much money can be made over there selling Heroin, then you will have people over there selling it. I don't care what the cops do because it wont work. There will always be very willing sellers and a ***T load of willing buyers.
my dad wanted to stop by outside the jett street tunnel on the way back from town to take a photo. problem is, it was 3 AM on a hot summer night, and that place was popping. we figured it was safe on that side of the tunnel cos it opens out into a church parking lot.
it looked abandoned, but before we knew it, this old guy was coming out the tunnel asking "do you know the time?" my dad was just like "time to get the hell outta here" and he drove off. we saw some dudes coming out down the street on the other side of the parking lot and we split.
the thing was, after i thought about it, i bet that old guy was a cop. i don't know about the younger dudes on the other side of the lot, but i bet he would have flashed his badge and gun when he got close and searched the car. if he wasn't a cop, i'm glad we got out of there cos i don't want to get knee deep in that ****, but i feel really bad for that guy if he was in his 40s and 50s and having to make his money selling that junk.
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