Atlanta streetcar testing to start friday night (moving to, light-rail)

[1lifealex]

I love the streetcars I've seen them almost everyday of testing yes the route is short but I have an understanding that this is just the start in five years or so it could be more like 12 miles of track in ten maybe closer to 30 miles wait and see people.

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

I love the streetcars I've seen them almost everyday of testing yes the route is short but I have an understanding that this is just the start in five years or so it could be more like 12 miles of track in ten maybe closer to 30 miles wait and see people.

Most people are idiots. They act like all rail systems were built to capacity initially and they werent. They all started out small and grew in phases later on

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

If it provides a viable transportation link for them, they will. Sure they don't want to ride MARTA buses as they currently exist, but throw some of these (picture below) down with nice stops and I think people will ride.



The Healthline in Cleveland is a perfect example of a bus transit project doing what I'm proposing. They got about 7 miles of bus transit for $150 million ($50 million for transit components - stops, buses, etc and $100 million for other corridor improvements - landscaping, sidewalk, sewer). They marked it well, put up real transit like stops and it gets 15,000 rides a day. Bus transit can be successful and drive economic growth if you commit to doing it right.

I'd take $150 million (much of which was discretionary aesthetic corridor improvements) for 15,000 rides vs $100 million for 2,500 rides.

I think the problem is knowing what the service is actually there to do. This type of BRT service is there to act in the manner of a train. It is supposed to move people in large quantities. A streetcar is not supposed to move millions of people. It is an economic developer and will pay for itself over and over with people wanting to build near the line and with the taxes that new development creates for the city. It is a means to move in an urban environment. While the lines can be moved, the chances of a streetcar being cancelled compared to a bus line cancel or even a re-route are slim to none. Also, there is a stigma about buses compared to rail service.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

I think the problem is knowing what the service is actually there to do. This type of BRT service is there to act in the manner of a train. It is supposed to move people in large quantities. A streetcar is not supposed to move millions of people. It is an economic developer and will pay for itself over and over with people wanting to build near the line and with the taxes that new development creates for the city. It is a means to move in an urban environment. While the lines can be moved, the chances of a streetcar being cancelled compared to a bus line cancel or even a re-route are slim to none. Also, there is a stigma about buses compared to rail service.

So you are paying 3-4 times the cost to cater to people's perceived stigma?

Produce a good product that has value and people will use it.

Chasing riders by trying to be cool for 3-4 times the cost is fiscal buffoonery.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

So you are paying 3-4 times the cost to cater to people's perceived stigma?

Produce a good product that has value and people will use it.

Chasing riders by trying to be cool for 3-4 times the cost is fiscal buffoonery.

We don't make users pay the real cost of transportation. A ride on a MARTA bus is $2.50, a ride on the streetcar is $1, a ride through the $1B new interchange at 285/400 is free.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by jsvh

We don't make users pay the real cost of transportation. A ride on a MARTA bus is $2.50, a ride on the streetcar is $1, a ride through the $1B new interchange at 285/400 is free.

What is your point?

Because a road interchange used by 500,000 vehicles a day and tens of millions of dollars of commerce is free, we should spend $100 million on a streetcar to nowhere?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by jsvh

We don't make users pay the real cost of transportation. A ride on a MARTA bus is $2.50, a ride on the streetcar is $1, a ride through the $1B new interchange at 285/400 is free.

You know that it's not free, it's paid for by taxes.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

What is your point?

Because a road interchange used by 500,000 vehicles a day and tens of millions of dollars of commerce is free, we should spend $100 million on a streetcar to nowhere?

My point is users of the $1B interchange should be directly paying its full cost and users of the streetcar should be spliting its full cost.

[afdinatl]

I just passed it on Edgewood. It looks nice

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by jsvh

My point is users of the $1B interchange should be directly paying its full cost and users of the streetcar should be spliting its full cost.

So what about the streetcar?

It cost ~100 million to construct. Amortize this over 30 years with a 4.5% and you get an annual cost of $6.1 million. Add in the $1.7 million in maintenance costs and you are up to $7.8 million for 912,500 total one way trips on the system in a year.

That means each trip on a 1.3 mile streetcar costs $8.53 to produce.

Yay streetcar!!! Charge $1 for a service that cost $8.53. Smart math.