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Yes....and when they move down from their homogenous Northern Suburbs to places in the south, where AA are nearly ubiquitous.....its CULTURE SHOCK to them. Then they want to know where the areas are "With good schools". Up north that usually means residential districts that have few blacks living in them. So instead of saying they are looking for the "white" areas....they say "good schools". I mean, the most important component in a child's quality education IS THE HOME. You do not have to seek out five star schools for your child to get a good education....so "good schools" is often code for few blacks, notwithstanding the fact that I realize that good schools are desirable and important.....but a good home will offset an average school every time. Now....terrible schools are another story....they are to be avoided at all cost.
Such transplanted Northern folk are the ones scared to go to the games because of the racial composition.
Eh...segregation is all over the US. Atlanta is a pretty segregated city as well in the core and the good schools thing goes on all over too. In Atlanta the "good schools" are also the ones with the higher amount of white students.
As I stated, racial attitudes and stereotypes are prevalent all over the US. In general most black people know the code words of "good schools" or "urban" or "hip hop" amongst others that portray some white people's fear of being around a large amount of black people.
It is what it is. I find it odd that it seems so many people want to paint what Levenson said as "racist" to black people when he was being much more critical of whites - they don't want to hear hip hop music (which is untrue for many young white people as many white Americans love hip hop) - they don't want to look at black cheerleaders - they don't want to listen to hip hop music, etc.
He is saying a lot of things about whites IMO and especially hinting to the fact that whites don't like blacks and are uncomfortable around them.
It is not a north/south thing or an east/west thing either. it is an American thing just like American style segregation.
Atlanta Is not as bad as Chicago, Detroit or NYC in segregation. Look at those segregation maps
Ummm, no one said it was. I have been in both Chicago and Detroit and I know that Atlanta is not as segregated as both of those places.
But Atlanta has its own degree of segregation and to act like it is all hunky dory rainbow land, especially in the core of the city would be a lie. The burbs are more integrated than the city in Atlanta but there is still segregation there and the attitudes about race in this country are more of an American phenomenon and nothing that is inherently based in any particular region or city in this country.
Eh...segregation is all over the US. Atlanta is a pretty segregated city as well in the core and the good schools thing goes on all over too. In Atlanta the "good schools" are also the ones with the higher amount of white students.
As I stated, racial attitudes and stereotypes are prevalent all over the US. In general most black people know the code words of "good schools" or "urban" or "hip hop" amongst others that portray some white people's fear of being around a large amount of black people.
It is what it is. I find it odd that it seems so many people want to paint what Levenson said as "racist" to black people when he was being much more critical of whites - they don't want to hear hip hop music (which is untrue for many young white people as many white Americans love hip hop) - they don't want to look at black cheerleaders - they don't want to listen to hip hop music, etc.
He is saying a lot of things about whites IMO and especially hinting to the fact that whites don't like blacks and are uncomfortable around them.
It is not a north/south thing or an east/west thing either. it is an American thing just like American style segregation.
I know its all over but the thing about the South is that blacks have traditionally lived in urban, rural and suburban communities in great numbers. When AA migrated to northern cities during the great migration, they nearly all went into the inner cities. Thus, suburbia in the North became synonymous with white. That is not as true down south as blacks traditionally lived all over the place.....except maybe Forysth county back in the days when I live in Atlanta. Hence, my point was simply that Northern suburban whites are not generally used to racial diversity residential or in schools. Thus, they are the type that may not want to attend the Hawks games because there are too many black folks there. I do not think he was singling out Southern whites because there are a large number of "yankee" white folk in the Northern metro.
I agree with your other comments though. I did not find the messenger to be racist.....but rather, what he was narrating depicted or exposed racism. However, that is what America has become. Anyone who talks about or even gives a narrative about racism in America, past or present, is called a racist...or someone who is playing the race card. The goal or wish is to intimidate people into not narrating THE TRUTH, which is the role that racism has and still plays in our society.
That having been said....maybe the owner realized that he could not make the franchise profitable because of the optics and just wanted to sell anyway. I mean, he is a business man.
Eh...segregation is all over the US. Atlanta is a pretty segregated city as well in the core and the good schools thing goes on all over too. In Atlanta the "good schools" are also the ones with the higher amount of white students.
As I stated, racial attitudes and stereotypes are prevalent all over the US. In general most black people know the code words of "good schools" or "urban" or "hip hop" amongst others that portray some white people's fear of being around a large amount of black people.
It is what it is. I find it odd that it seems so many people want to paint what Levenson said as "racist" to black people when he was being much more critical of whites - they don't want to hear hip hop music (which is untrue for many young white people as many white Americans love hip hop) - they don't want to look at black cheerleaders - they don't want to listen to hip hop music, etc.
He is saying a lot of things about whites IMO and especially hinting to the fact that whites don't like blacks and are uncomfortable around them.
It is not a north/south thing or an east/west thing either. it is an American thing just like American style segregation.
I get what you are saying. I got the same thing from the email, he was sayng whites in Atlanta don't really mix with the blacks and by blacks going to the game, causes whites not to want to go. Makes sense.
I didn't find the email to be racist either. And BlackPeach made excellent points. As has been mentioned and reported, Atlanta has the highest income disparity between blacks and whites in the nation as far as major cities go. For all the talk of black success in Atlanta, there's even more black poverty. Poverty definitely has a black face in Atlanta. I also agree with BlackPeach that the income disparity between blacks and whites in Atlanta is painfully obvious and in your face there. I also hardly ever saw poor whites there, but poor blacks were everywhere.
From a money and cultural perspective, I totally get what the manager is saying. If the majority of the city is black and a great number of those blacks are poor but yet they are the ones going to the games, they aren't getting the most expensive tickets and they aren't spending a lot of money on concessions.
Also as far as hip-hop, I know Atlantans love and are proud of their hip-hop music. Many blacks, even in this forum speak of hip-hop music as a major draw for the city and one of the things that make it great. Maybe that's true. But what those who feel that way don't realize is that a lot of people don't like or listen to hip-hop.
I'm black and I don't listen to hip-hop at all. I can't stand it. Not most of it anyway. I'm also not Christian so I don't listen to gospel music. I never went to a Hawks game (I'm not a big basketball fan), but if I did and if during the game and half-time shows all they were blasting is hip-hop and gospel, I would've stopped going to games too. By the same token I don't like country either. So I'd probably feel the same way if they were blasting country music.
In my 7 years of living here it just seems many black folks here are in denial and I have been to all that major counties (Fulton Cobb Gwinnett, DeKalb) People love to say Atlanta is a place for rich black folks, but from what I have seen off the entire black population in Metro Atlanta maybe 10-15% are well off with another 70-75% acting like they are well off and the rest just poor as dirt with no ambition to act like they are well off. Its that 70-75% that Im looking at who kinda set the tone and create that Black Atlanta Culture. Where if you don't act like you doing well in life, when your life sucks lol. You see it and hear it everywhere in Atlanta its pretty powerful. When you look at the Deltas, Coca Colas, Georgia Powers, Home Depots, UPSs & AT&Ts you don't see many blacks in power. Those are some of our biggest companies here and you can probably count how many VPs or VIPs in those companies that are actually BLACK and im not counting the Latinos\Hispanics they use to tap into Spanish America or the East Indians. Im talking about All American Blacks. Those 70-75% have weird priorities. Yea the world keeps on turning, but most of these blacks in Atlanta make average money, but spend like their money is above average depending on WHERE they SEE Value.
In my 7 years of living here it just seems many black folks here are in denial and I have been to all that major counties (Fulton Cobb Gwinnett, DeKalb) People love to say Atlanta is a place for rich black folks, but from what I have seen off the entire black population in Metro Atlanta maybe 10-15% are well off with another 70-75% acting like they are well off and the rest just poor as dirt with no ambition to act like they are well off. Its that 70-75% that Im looking at who kinda set the tone and create that Black Atlanta Culture. Where if you don't act like you doing well in life, when your life sucks lol. You see it and hear it everywhere in Atlanta its pretty powerful. When you look at the Deltas, Coca Colas, Georgia Powers, Home Depots, UPSs & AT&Ts you don't see many blacks in power. Those are some of our biggest companies here and you can probably count how many VPs or VIPs in those companies that are actually BLACK and im not counting the Latinos\Hispanics they use to tap into Spanish America or the East Indians. Im talking about All American Blacks. Those 70-75% have weird priorities. Yea the world keeps on turning, but most of these blacks in Atlanta make average money, but spend like their money is above average depending on WHERE they SEE Value.
The bottom line is that even in Blaklanta....that is a CONSUMER title, not a PRODUCER title. We are workers and consumers in America....and that includes in Atlanta. If white folks pullout.....black folks would fold up like lawn chairs because we would have no place to work (and no money to spend) on things that we are not producing.
That is why I have that warning to the ATL about getting the optics of a "black metro" or "mecca". That will eventually chase white folks away. Not that we are doing anything wrong, mind you. That is just the way America has always been. America tolerates black folks....but don't really like us.....and they tolerate us in small numbers and percentages. When you get too black....watch out. That is what happened to the city of Detroit proper. Black optics.
The bottom line is that even in Blaklanta....that is a CONSUMER title, not a PRODUCER title. We are workers and consumers in America....and that includes in Atlanta. If white folks pullout.....black folks would fold up like lawn chairs because we would have no place to work (and no money to spend) on things that we are not producing.
That is why I have that warning to the ATL about getting the optics of a "black metro" or "mecca". That will eventually chase white folks away. Not that we are doing anything wrong, mind you. That is just the way America has always been. America tolerates black folks....but don't really like us.....and they tolerate us in small numbers and percentages. When you get too black....watch out. That is what happened to the city of Detroit proper. Black optics.
To be objective here Atlanta does have one of the highest number of black owned businesses and banks. Ofcourse this doesn't mean that if all the white folk moved away things wouldn't go south, but we would be much better off then many other cities because of the level of black entrepreneur here.
In my 7 years of living here it just seems many black folks here are in denial and I have been to all that major counties (Fulton Cobb Gwinnett, DeKalb) People love to say Atlanta is a place for rich black folks, but from what I have seen off the entire black population in Metro Atlanta maybe 10-15% are well off with another 70-75% acting like they are well off and the rest just poor as dirt with no ambition to act like they are well off. Its that 70-75% that Im looking at who kinda set the tone and create that Black Atlanta Culture. Where if you don't act like you doing well in life, when your life sucks lol. You see it and hear it everywhere in Atlanta its pretty powerful. When you look at the Deltas, Coca Colas, Georgia Powers, Home Depots, UPSs & AT&Ts you don't see many blacks in power. Those are some of our biggest companies here and you can probably count how many VPs or VIPs in those companies that are actually BLACK and im not counting the Latinos\Hispanics they use to tap into Spanish America or the East Indians. Im talking about All American Blacks. Those 70-75% have weird priorities. Yea the world keeps on turning, but most of these blacks in Atlanta make average money, but spend like their money is above average depending on WHERE they SEE Value.
I read an article recently written around the time of the Olympics that spoke about this very thing: that Atlanta is so boosted that even Atlanta's poor blacks think they are well-off or don't realize how bad a place Atlanta is for them. It's a very interesting dynamic indeed. When you talk to them and ask them what makes Atlanta so great, they talk about all these opportunities. But when you do the actual leg work of seeking out all these opportunities in Atlanta that people keep raving about, they aren't there. And outside of local and state government work, the only thing that's there for black people in large number is low-wage jobs or no jobs at all.
I keep hearing that Atlanta is a great place for black business but what is it about Atlanta itself that offers better business opportunities for blacks that they can't get elsewhere if they have the same drive and ambition to work for themselves? Does the city give black people grants or loans to start businesses? Are people more willing to do business with blacks in Atlanta than in other places? What is about the city itself that makes this true? If Mayor Maynard Jackson hadn't done what he did for black business in Atlanta, would it be a good place for blacks to do business today?
Quote:
Elected Atlanta’s mayor for three terms (1974-1982 and 1990-1994), [Maynard Jackson] is credited with cementing the city's reputation as the seat of the New South and a bastion of wealth, political power, business clout, and education for African Americans.
He thought that the route to racial equality for African Americans lay with transforming the government, building economic power, and demanding that the nation's white leaders concede to the needs of minorities and poor residents of inner cities.
As mayor, he pushed for affirmative action programs that ensured black-owned businesses received a proportionate amount of municipal contracts, and he worked to alleviate poverty among Atlantans. His policy of continuing the struggle via political action threatened many whites, who feared losing power to a growing African American population. Police chiefs, former mayors, and businessmen all squabbled with Jackson over what they thought was his preferential treatment of blacks. Jackson was able to allay most of their fears, which were largely unfounded, by nurturing biracial coalitions later in his mayoral terms. As one of America’s first African American mayors of a major city, he faced the rising crime, urban decay, and white flight that surfaced in the early 1980s.
I think that if he were never voted mayor, Atlanta would be in much worse shape than it is today. I think he was the saving grace for the city's blacks. I think it's better today than what it was back then, but it's still not as great for blacks as people are making it out to be.
As Residinghere has pointed out, the inner city is still segregated and it still has the worst income disparity between blacks and whites in the country. What the Hawks owner expressed in his email is highly indicative of this.
Last edited by Atlanta_BD; 09-17-2014 at 04:32 PM..
I read an article recently written around the time of the Olympics that spoke about this very thing: that Atlanta is so boosted that even Atlanta's poor blacks think they are well-off or don't realize how bad a place Atlanta is for them. It's a very interesting dynamic indeed. When you talk to them and ask them what makes Atlanta so great, they talk about all these opportunities. But when you do the actual leg work of seeking out all these opportunities in Atlanta that people keep raving about, they aren't there. And outside of local and state government work, the only thing that's there for black people in large number is low-wage jobs or no jobs at all.
I keep hearing that Atlanta is a great place for black business but what is it about Atlanta itself that offers better business opportunities for blacks that they can't get elsewhere if they have the same drive and ambition to work for themselves? Does the city give black people grants or loans to start businesses? Are people more willing to do business with blacks in Atlanta than in other places? What is about the city itself that makes this true? If Mayor Maynard Jackson hadn't done what he did for black business in Atlanta, would it be a good place for blacks to do business today?
I think that if he were never voted mayor, Atlanta would be in much worse shape than it is today. I think he was the saving grace for the city's blacks. I think it's better today than what it was back then, but it's still not as great for blacks as people are making it out to be.
As Residinghere has pointed out, the inner city is still segregated and it still has the worst income disparity between blacks and whites in the country. What the Hawks owner expressed in his email is highly indicative of this.
I will even go a little further than you, and this is sure to set some folks off, but I think the Atlanta phenomenon is akin to the President Obama phenomenon. In other words, I think black folks think they are getting something, when they are really not.
I currently live in Minneapolis. Think of Minneapolis as Hilary Clinton and Atlanta as Barrack Obama in 2007. Aside from the "optics", which one would actually do more for a black person? I would argue that Hilary Clinton could have and maybe would have done more for black folks than Obama has and I would also argue that moving to Minneapolis would likely do more for a black person than moving to Atlanta would.
As an AA in Minneapolis, companies seek you out because there are shortages of AA in many skilled professions. You can even get scholarships to prestigious and expensive private schools here, as an African American. Yes, there are poor blacks here too.....and they are poor.....but being poor in Minneapolis does not look and feel like poverty in Atlanta. The poor here live in nice looking areas compared to the "homes" for the poor in Atlanta....and they are not concentrated. Yes, there is racism here amidst the "Minnesota Nice" facade....and its cold as hell in the winter.....but the opportunities here for black folks, due to a small black population, are much better.
Now, I feel that the "Climate" create for a Hilary Clinton Presidency, in 2008, would have been much better for the continued black struggle than Obama has been. In fact, there was a study after the Presidents first term that asked black folks did they feel better off. Do you know my Negroes said they felt much better off after 4 years of Obama, despite being much worse off in nearly every socioeconomic metric? In other words, black folks felt like they were doing better, despite doing worse, for no other reason than having a black president. I think Atlanta has the same impact on black folks. They think they are much better off for being in Atlanta......when they really are not or could be better off someplace else.
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