Will the Beltline fulfill its vision if lopsided investment continues? (Atlanta: apartments, credit)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Oh, I agree with you that reasonable minds should reach your conclusion. But, we are talking about politicians here.....

yea... sorry.

One thing I haven't mentioned in this forum. This is an on-going debate from a past thread on the matter where I suggested citizens should be more upset with their APS leaders in trying to reach an amicable solution. Once all the facts are properly on the table, it seems like they are the winners by the rule of the contract and they are the group that is far better funded than the others.

politicians.....

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

right and as I tried to bring this up in a past thread on the issue... These elected leaders represent the same citizens, just one set controls the schools and the other the city government. If they'd work together better on behalf of the same constituency they should logically look at the facts and the situation of what revenue exists and what revenues doesn't exist and redefine the contract.

The schools are on far better financial footing than the city government as well. It is the to citizen's advantage that one side not take advantage of the other just because of a contract with a faulty assumption.

I disagree totally. The school officials are responsible for the schools and have a fiduciary responsibility for the schools. The city officials are responsible for different things. If the city wants to fund something, they should do it from their budget, not from the school's.

I've got a problem with politicians in that too many understand money is fungible and take taxpayer money intended for one purpose and use it for another.

I've also got a problem with a lot of these TADs. The Beltline is one of the more logical ones, but some have little public benefit, just a private one for the developers. In those cases, its basically just a giveaway to land speculators and developers. Why can't Buckhead just say we want a TAD and keep all the increase in tax money and spend it only in Buckhead?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

There is a reason I emphasized the word "back." APS never handed over cash. They are arguing over a contract about some money that never materialized through expected taxes, which is far different from owing cash back.

You're saying that missing some major points and it all goes back to your underlined point. That underlined point ended up not being true for several years. Then the amount increase in a few years since then is too little to cover the full amount.

The value the APS was giving up was part of the increase of property taxes within the Beltine TAD only.

This was the same type of money the city and the county were giving to the Beltline TAD program, yet there is no problems between those two entities and the Beltline TAD.

When the housing market collapsed the property values of the Beltline TAD did not go up much. In fact large parts of property values went down across the whole corridor. It is important to remember the property taxes at the 2005 values still are split between the city, county, and schools like normal. This is only over any increase in the 2005 value. If values dip below the 2005 value completely, then the Beltline doesn't get any income from property taxes at all.

The problem is when they had a fixed amount planned (rather than a fixed percentage), the Beltline has not gotten the income from the original APS portion of the increase in property taxes to meet the APS payments.

It should be noted that the TAD gets more funds from places other than the Beltline TAD. For the Beltline TAD to provide full payment, they would have to use funds from other sources, which provides a windfall for APS. This also puts the Betline in a jam, because they most likely can't use money from other sources for this purpose (ie. a large philanthropic donors donated to the Beltline for the Beltline cosntruction... not APS uses)

Further complicating the matter... the amount negotiated in the contract for APS to receive originally had an assumption that the number of students would increase in the school system from new residences along the Beltline. Because development has been scaled back, there are future new students to the system caused by the Beltline.

It is a double-whammy. The schools that fixed amount they wouldn't have been getting otherwise for a large increase in students that never materialized.

I'd argue that the city is the one being inflexible. APS is willing to let the city meet its obligations in various ways and over an extended time period. The city is saying we won't pay the full amount even though they have the wherewithal to pay. Its like Donald Trump saying he won't pay the IRS because he wants to buy a new yacht and doesn't have the cash to both pay his taxes and buy the yacht.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by red92s

A lot of the "overgrowth" is intentional, and still in the process of growing into it's final form.
Chill Out! Those Beltline Weeds Are Part Of The Plan! - Weedy Invasion - Curbed Atlanta
Native Grass Prairie on the Eastside Trail || Trees Atlanta

Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of this. Seems like a logical plan to me. I guess as a society, when most people hear "landscaping" they automatically think of golf course-esque neatly manicured laws of grass with fully grown trees and flowers. This is a much better plan and will end up looking more amazing than anything that is installed artificially.

My only concern since they are going with a plan to grow an ecosystem using the local flora and fauna is what do they plan to do with the other side of that natural coin: field mice and black rat snakes. They are just as much a part of a natural Georgia ecosystem as wild flowers. Inevitably they will be attracted to reclaimed land.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

My only concern since they are going with a plan to grow an ecosystem using the local flora and fauna is what do they plan to do with the other side of that natural coin: field mice and black rat snakes.

I would think there's enough activity on the Beltline to keep the snakes well hidden, and they can occupy their time hunting the mice.

[Saintmarks]

The original plan included rail. As nice as a walk/bike path is/will be for these neighborhoods, the rail component is what will make these property values skyrocket and thus make the TAD function to its fullest potential . I know I am viewing this from a distance, but it seems like there is a gradual acceptance that rail is a far out concept... if ever. The Beltline will never be the game changer for the city without it. MHO.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

I'd argue that the city is the one being inflexible. APS is willing to let the city meet its obligations in various ways and over an extended time period. The city is saying we won't pay the full amount even though they have the wherewithal to pay. Its like Donald Trump saying he won't pay the IRS because he wants to buy a new yacht and doesn't have the cash to both pay his taxes and buy the yacht.

Agreed. It was ridiculous for the school board to agree with this in the first place. Now that they have, their minimum responsibility is to be sure that they collect the money that is due.

Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers, especially when it comes to financing speculative real estate ventures. As is obvious, all sorts of things happen -- recessions, delays, cost overruns, scope of work changes, projects that don't materialize, changing market conditions, etc., etc.

Governments are the stewards of public funds, collected by force of law from taxpayers. As such, they need to strictly adhere to the highest standards of prudence and accountability.

If a private developer wants to take a flyer on something, that's their business. They may hit a homerun and make huge profits. Or they may fall flat. But that is not the role of public institutions.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

The original plan included rail. As nice as a walk/bike path is/will be for these neighborhoods, the rail component is what will make these property values skyrocket and thus make the TAD function to its fullest potential . I know I am viewing this from a distance, but it seems like there is a gradual acceptance that rail is a far out concept... if ever. The Beltline will never be the game changer for the city without it. MHO.

It may be closer than you think. Current plans have construction of the light rail on the Beltline starting in the 2017-2019 range. They are working on the engineering and final routing now.

It already is mostly funded, but will still need some additional sources. But there are some additional sources in the works.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Correct. The potential of the Beltline is obvious to me; I envy those who own commercial property adjacent to it.

Yet some, like Midtown Plaza and Midtown Place have done nothing to create permanent connections to the Eastside Trail.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jsvh

It already is mostly funded, but will still need some additional sources. But there are some additional sources in the works.

Who's paying for it? If the Beltline (COA) has the money, they need to immediately get square with the school board.