Nordstrom closing Mall of Georgia store (Atlanta, Suwanee: employment, neighborhoods, median income)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

LOL!
Agreed... The suburbs are still where the majority of growth is taking place. SOME people are returning to the cities and helping them boom again, but they are only a portion of metro area growth in the U.S. ARC reports Atlanta's population for 2014 at 428,000, lower than 2013's census estimate. ARC's figures have proven almost exactly right for the past few census counts. If ARC's figures prove right, and I'll bet they will, Forsyth County adds more than twice the people of the city. Not counting the other counties. Atlanta metro grew by 70,000 in 2013. About 4,000 at most was in the city. Most metro growth is still in the burbs.

Have you seen all the multi-family complexes going up in CoA?

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Have you seen all the multi-family complexes going up in CoA?

There is no reason to get defensive... I stated data. I stated that people are moving into cities... It is NOT the majority of people moving to metropolitan areas though. I'm sure you've noticed the many, many abandoned houses and apartment complexes throughout the southside. Some entire blocks are virtually abandoned. Atlanta is gaining urban hipsters but it's losing poor and middle class blacks to the suburbs. That's why it didn't grow that much in the 2000's. The ARC usually knows what it's talking about. Cities are growing again, thankfully, but the majority of metropolitan area growth is in the suburbs, and that's a verifiable, undisputable fact.

Everyone should know by now that I'm rooting for Atlanta.

[Staysean23]

That Nordstrom was not upscale at all. Felt like I was in Dillards

[gvlscrkeva]

@mrdkb

I agree with you on that statement about location. If it were up to me, I would have never placed Nordstrom on the book end of the mall. It should be in the front as much as possible as visibility plays an important key. If all, I would have swapped it where Macy's is at! Macy's (or Rich's) when the mall came about in the early 2000s was a strong anchor tenant that could have pulled in the customers from the other side of the mall but as it stands now...whenever I visit MOG...It seems like the crowds die down once you get past Belk (if going in that direction to the "mountain themed" area of the mall.) Plus too, Dick's seems a bit dry as well but I "get" the fact that it is in that area of the mall due to the theme.

Does anyone know if the new Von Maur will be 2 levels or three? That Nordstrom there is 2 levels.

[ATLTJL]

A lot of good thoughts in this thread.

I'm just taking a stab here...I think the Mall of Georgia just doesn't attract the correct demographic for Nordstrom. Perimeter and Phipps are perfect locations for it, but Mall of Georgia just seems like a bit of a stretch. I see Mall of Georgia as a location where mid-level retailers can build large flagship stores, but it's just not going to have the same wealth and fashion sense that Perimeter and Phipps do. I imagine people with the money and desire to regularly shop at Nordstrom prefer to shop at Perimeter and Phipps, even if they live closer to Mall of Georgia.

Does Nordstrom vary its inventory to account for location? I bought a really nice shirt at Belk at Phipps, but it was the wrong size and I tried to exchange it at the location in the Forum shops in Norcross. They didn't have the item in their inventory, and I noticed that the entire store stocks almost completely different merchandise, they are almost like two completely different retailers. So if Norstrom figured they could sell the same inventory at MOG as Phipps and Perimeter, well....I assume they are smarter than that.

I'm very interested in what happens to MOG. Especially because I hear massive plans are being developed to do a massive overhaul on Gwinnett Place. Could it capture some of what was lost to MOG? I hope so! I think it depends heavily on getting rid of Megamart, and that's going to be pretty tough considering they own the building (they don't lease it).

[midtown mile girl]

The economy was very different when this mall was built, and there were shoppers for this store. However, the past few years with layoffs and lower wages, the shoppers are no longer there. Nordstrom also seems to have implemented an odd merchandise mix over the past few years going for a younger shopper and forgetting everyone else.

[gvlscrkeva]

@ATLTJL
What kinda plans are in store for Gwinnett Place Mall?

Now I've visited that place cuz I seen pics and read up on it on SkyCity Southern Retail so I had to go see it for myself. One thing I dont understand and maybe the locals can chime in on this but why did Simon feel the need to build a new mall just a few miles up the road and not reinvest in GP? I dont understand the logic behind it? As it stands GPM has Sears, JCPenney, Macy's, then Belk/Parisian, and MegaMart. Was there a shift in demos or money to the Buford area? Im always fascinated about how MOG came about as (to me coming from SC to shop)...it seems like its in the middle of nowhere and then overtime, urban sprawl came along with it. I guess with MOG, truly if you build it, they will come! Lord knows I do from SC!

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by gvlscrkeva

@ATLTJL
What kinda plans are in store for Gwinnett Place Mall?

Now I've visited that place cuz I seen pics and read up on it on SkyCity Southern Retail so I had to go see it for myself. One thing I dont understand and maybe the locals can chime in on this but why did Simon feel the need to build a new mall just a few miles up the road and not reinvest in GP? I dont understand the logic behind it? As it stands GPM has Sears, JCPenney, Macy's, then Belk/Parisian, and MegaMart. Was there a shift in demos or money to the Buford area? Im always fascinated about how MOG came about as (to me coming from SC to shop)...it seems like its in the middle of nowhere and then overtime, urban sprawl came along with it. I guess with MOG, truly if you build it, they will come! Lord knows I do from SC!

I think part of it was there was no mall of GA yet. Gwinnett Place doesn't have the same allure as THE Mall of GA. And yes demographics have been constantly shifting on 85, especially in the 90s and early 00s. The area around GPM is poorer than it used to be, especially to the south on 85. The money and population kept growing north on 85. I don't remember exactly what it was like before MOG but I have no doubt the population would have kept growing out that way. I can't speak for all the commercial development near MOG. All of those stores might be somewhere else right now if not for MOG but I'm not sure. I think what really hurt GPM was the opening of Discover Mills (now Sugarloaf Mills) just 3-4 miles up the freeway. That took a lot of local customers. Lots of money on Sugarloaf Pkwy and to the north. Why drive farther and deal with much more traffic on Pleasant Hill Rd than Sugarloaf Pkwy.

[Mishap]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

I think part of it was there was no mall of GA yet. Gwinnett Place doesn't have the same allure as THE Mall of GA. And yes demographics have been constantly shifting on 85, especially in the 90s and early 00s. The area around GPM is poorer than it used to be, especially to the south on 85. The money and population kept growing north on 85. I don't remember exactly what it was like before MOG but I have no doubt the population would have kept growing out that way. I can't speak for all the commercial development near MOG. All of those stores might be somewhere else right now if not for MOG but I'm not sure. I think what really hurt GPM was the opening of Discover Mills (now Sugarloaf Mills) just 3-4 miles up the freeway. That took a lot of local customers. Lots of money on Sugarloaf Pkwy and to the north. Why drive farther and deal with much more traffic on Pleasant Hill Rd than Sugarloaf Pkwy.

GPM is in 30096 and while not rich, it's still above the median for GA. Based on the sheer number of businesses/retail/etc in the area that is doing well, the mall should be getting by. I lived out there for a few years when starting out and it certainly wasn't a bad place to live beyond the traffic. Discover Mills may have taken some traffic away but it doesn't have the huge anchor stores that MOG built out(and actually came later than MOG) so it may have taken the boutique stores and the 2nd tier stores out.

MOG has taken a fair amount of traffic of folks in the exurbs and rural areas to the northeast that used to make the trek to GPM. I remember as a kid back before Sugarloaf was built, the drive from Lawrenceville to 316 and then to 85 and how impressive the mall seemed relative to anything in Lawrenceville or Snellville.

Given the traffic headaches of getting to the city/airport/etc from out that way, I get the feeling the closer in exits should be prime for redevelopment. Building to Suwanee and beyond and then complaining about traffic at 316/85 merge is insanity.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

LOL!
Agreed... The suburbs are still where the majority of growth is taking place. SOME people are returning to the cities and helping them boom again, but they are only a portion of metro area growth in the U.S. ARC reports Atlanta's population for 2014 at 428,000, lower than 2013's census estimate. ARC's figures have proven almost exactly right for the past few census counts. If ARC's figures prove right, and I'll bet they will, Forsyth County adds more than twice the people of the city. Not counting the other counties. Atlanta metro grew by 70,000 in 2013. About 4,000 at most was in the city. Most metro growth is still in the burbs.

Think you are reading your numbers wrong: http://documents.atlantaregional.com...s_main2014.pdf

Buckhead or Midtown alone currently has more new residential units in the works than the entire city (proper) saw in growth in the last 12 months. [6K-10K units vs 4,100 in growth]

That 12 months (April 2013 to April 2014) of population growth is more than the three years since 2010 combined. [4,100 vs 2,797]

Those four years combined have more growth than any decade since the 1960s. [6,897 vs ~3,500 or even negative growth]

While the larger area counties have more raw numbers of population growth vs CoA today. Growth rates are exploding in the city proper and plummeting in the suburbs.