One Year Later: Braves Stadium Development Plans Evolve (Atlanta, Marietta: fit in, sales)

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Mostly just southern sunbelt cities that failed to do it. The actual urban, walkable cities like NYC, SF, Chicago have neighborhoods that are vibrant around their stadiums, but then again, they're far better, world class cities.

Have you actually been to the Bronx on Grand Concourse around Yankee Stadium? That area is not vibrant, not super ghetto either. But nothing like the Coors Field example. So no correlation there. Sorry. I think people need to really keep in context these correlations they try and make.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by JPD

And Cobb has succeeded at that?

It's a bunt but, yeah, the location will take a billion to develop into something like what people want. The location is abysmal....at the intersection of I-75, a main corridor in the US from North to South and vice versa, AND at the intersection of I-285....could you have made the traffic prediction any worse?

At least it's out of the ghetto, THE number one reason it can't "thrive" like those cities with a vibrant, SAFE, drinking/eating culture....Wayne Huizenga knew/knows that an moved a stadium to Sunrise Florida. Why? He went to where the CUSTOMERS are...ones who don't blink at a $10 beer....not some ghetto where police have to cordon off a walkway to keep you alive.....the Ted was a beautiful stadium but, hey, how about that parking on the hilly lots to the East??? Laughable....

I don't know why the owners can't bite the bullet and move the venues OUT of the city to where the CUSTOMERS are and watch the stadium fill up REGARDLESS of how well the team is doing as there will be something to do and people with the money to do it? Cuts down on traffic and creates a great addition to any CLEAN AND SAFE urban environment.

People don't like downtown as much because it's simply not safe and run down. We all work around it but, it's the 800lb gorilla in the room. Move the stadiums OUT of town and enjoy the revenue. They will get more of it at a fraction of the BS to get it.

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Had anyone invested in that prior to 2014, the Braves might've been inclined to stay. Instead the city threw money at the Falcons to create the Sphincter Dome and neglected their more important sports team in the Braves. The Braves draw 30,000+ for 81 games a year. The Falcons draw 60,000 for 8-10. Which would you want to anchor a vibrant, urban communitr? There are great bars and restaurants around PNC Park in Pittsburgh and 2/3 mile away Heinz Field has nothing around it. Atlanta and Kasim chose poorly.

What exactly did the Braves provide to the area? Summerhill and Peoplestown should be mirrors of Grant Park which they border closely. Braves have to be held accountable for always having their hand out and not spurring economic development. And that land has generated no tax base for like ever. Hopefully that will soon change.

I also do not give your Falcons a pass either. No reason the AUC area and Vine City, English Ave. should not be in a state of revitalization. The Falcons should also be invested in the area. Im sure a good bit of their fanship actually comes from the are.

These franchises have to pay to play as well.

[glovenyc]

Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY

Have you actually been to the Bronx on Grand Concourse around Yankee Stadium? That area is not vibrant, not super ghetto either. But nothing like the Coors Field example. So no correlation there. Sorry. I think people need to really keep in context these correlations they try and make.

Agreed...neither baseball stadiums in NYC are in vibrant areas. The South Bronx is not super-ghetto now, but growing as a Yankee fan in the late 70s the South Bronx had to be the absolute worst neighborhood in US. Also the Shea stadium area is not-walkable and is definitely disconnected from any of the vibrant areas in Queens.

[stepsinsc]

Originally Posted by DawgPark

True, but I don't think there is a grand conspiracy to tank the last 2 seasons at the Ted. That's crazy talk and makes ZERO financial sense for the Braves.

I don't think anyone is suggesting intentional tanking. I think the suggestion is that their goal is to be competitive in 2017 when the new stadium opens. A side effect of that is that they'll suck in the meantime, but that is obviously not the goal.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet

It's a bunt but, yeah, the location will take a billion to develop into something like what people want. The location is abysmal....at the intersection of I-75, a main corridor in the US from North to South and vice versa, AND at the intersection of I-285....could you have made the traffic prediction any worse?

At least it's out of the ghetto, THE number one reason it can't "thrive" like those cities with a vibrant, SAFE, drinking/eating culture....Wayne Huizenga knew/knows that an moved a stadium to Sunrise Florida. Why? He went to where the CUSTOMERS are...ones who don't blink at a $10 beer....not some ghetto where police have to cordon off a walkway to keep you alive.....the Ted was a beautiful stadium but, hey, how about that parking on the hilly lots to the East??? Laughable....

I don't know why the owners can't bite the bullet and move the venues OUT of the city to where the CUSTOMERS are and watch the stadium fill up REGARDLESS of how well the team is doing as there will be something to do and people with the money to do it? Cuts down on traffic and creates a great addition to any CLEAN AND SAFE urban environment.

People don't like downtown as much because it's simply not safe and run down. We all work around it but, it's the 800lb gorilla in the room. Move the stadiums OUT of town and enjoy the revenue. They will get more of it at a fraction of the BS to get it.

Judging from your post, the last time you went to Downtown Atlanta was probably around 1980.

[arjay57]

What do y'all think has been the biggest impediment to redeveloping the area around Turner field?

Can Cobb do anything to avoid those problems in the new location?

[travbo]

I would say the #1 impediment for anything south of I-20 is racism and misperception. It's only been in the last 3-4 years that a growing number of individuals in Atlanta have become familiar with areas like EAV, let alone surrounding nieghborhoods. However, i think this is changing and that many of the areas south of I-20 will see gentrification over time, especially once the Braves move.

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by arjay57

What do y'all think has been the biggest impediment to redeveloping the area around Turner field?

Can Cobb do anything to avoid those problems in the new location?

Personally my opinion is that the entity that got tax breaks/incentives did not do their part. And the city is also at fault for not offering some sort of business incentives to the private sector to spur economic development and invest into the existing population as well. Marketing is key to helping put the spotlight on communities and from what I was told this is what they did with Cabbage Town and Grant Park back in the day.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Judging from your post, the last time you went to Downtown Atlanta was probably around 1980.

I think his point was that Turner Field is in a really unpleasant area, and the city has done precious little to improve that area since the Ted (and Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium before it) was built.


There is precious little available land in DESIRABLE parts of downtown, and certainly not a big enough chunk for a baseball stadium, especially now that the Falcons are getting their new palace. (And the area around the Falcons' new digs doesn't yet qualify as either desirable or truly walkable, in my book, though areas to the north and east of the present Dome have improved considerably in recent years.)


Full disclosure, though it shouldn't matter: I am a white, very liberal Cobb (until recently, Smyrna, and now downtown Marietta) resident who frequently attends Braves games at the Ted and will undoubtedly go to many more at Cumberland. I'm not wild about taxpayer dollars going towards stadiums, but I'm also a realist and recognize that it happens, on some level, almost everywhere.


I freely admit that the Cumberland site has its issues, but continually harping on them, as some on this forum tend to do, while refusing to recognize that downtown sites would have had some of the same problems, as well as issues of their own, is not helpful. Gleefully rooting for the Cumberland site to actually fail because they want CoA to have all the toys is an incredibly short-sighted tactic by a small but vocal minority, and it makes me sad, especially because it accomplishes nothing. For Atlanta to succeed as a metro area, the entire area has to work together. Yes, Cobb and Gwinnett's rejection of MARTA 30 years ago was a short-sighted mistake, but both counties are evolving quickly and I am hopeful that the tide will turn in the decade to come. The recent improvement in MARTA leadership should help.

I really do wish that ARC or some other regional body had actual teeth to make real planning decisions, instead of everything being left to the ridiculous number of small local governments we have. Talk about waste: the number of small counties in this state never ceases to amaze me.