Georgia House leaders unveil transportation funding bill (Atlanta, Columbus: construction, sales tax)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

The video license plate system doesn't really account for out of state cars either. We can send them a bill, but there is nothing we can do to make them pay it, unless their home state has some type of reciprocity plan with us or federal regulations change.

Given that all the different state toll systems are already working on merging in the next few years, I don't think that will be an issue (and even since that article more mergers have taken place such as GA's Peach pass now works with Florida and NC).

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

There's something critical missing from this analysis: The costs of air pollution. And I'm not just talking about carbon dioxide, though that certainly is a thing; I mean locally hazardous pollutants such as nitric oxide. And to a lesser degree, there's a quality of life issue that stems from the fact that electric cars are much, much quieter.

Of course, this does not apply as much to natural gas cars. Surely there's a way to tax the fuel of natural gas cars?

I simply do not understand why some people want to punish others for being environmentally conscious. If anything, the increased taxes should target people who drive SUVs without anyone else in the vehicle.



You mean to say that environmentally-conscious measures can be smart economically? Whodathunkit?

Sorry I had completely missed this post.

Umm.. I'll be honest you're barking up the wrong tree.

We are primarily discussing how we physically pay for the transportation infrastructure we have. The cost of freeways, arterials roads, transit, etc...

They are traditionally paid for out of the gas tax. All cars using them will eventually need to help pay for them. Cars are rapidly getting more fuel efficient and completely AFVs are increasing, yet they still need the physical roads and bridges built to be of any use.

It doesn't matter if you are driving an all electric car or escalade, they still need the roads and bridges built to operate and they should both pay for it.

So no is punishing anyone for being environmentally conscious, there is just a harsh reality we can't let these people completely off the hook for paying for a system they use.

In fact, if everyone was that environmentally conscious we would have no funding mechanism for the GDOT at all and this would not be smart economically.

Additionally, if we had to generate more revenue to deal with economic externalities of fuel consuming cars, we'd need a different tax on them altogether and pay for those separately. Currently no one pays that.

So no... they don't get a free pass.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Given that all the different state toll systems are already working on merging in the next few years, I don't think that will be an issue (and even since that article more mergers have taken place such as GA's Peach pass now works with Florida and NC).

That is a far cry from what you are putting forth though. It also is a limited number of states. I mean they are really just making a system where we can use each other's toll tags. That is very different from billing for every mile driven through our state.

I'm sorry, I just don't see the purpose for putting together such an expensive and complicated system when it is far simpler not to

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by columbusmetro89

Yeah but the bad thing about this is atlanta will get most of the money for transportation projects. The other cities in georgia hardly won't get anything.Augusta Columbus Macon Savannah are growing cities too may not be a fast as atlanta but were still growing.

That's a good point that Georgia's second-tier metro areas like Augusta, Columbus, Macon/Warner Robins and Savannah are also growing and are also in need of increased transportation funding.

The problem is that Metro Atlanta has experienced such a crushing amount of population growth in such a relatively short amount of time that the Atlanta metro area's already-inadequate road network has been completely overwhelmed with severe traffic congestion and often just outright gridlock.

The peak-hour traffic gridlock is so severe that it is something that has threatened to undermine both Metro Atlanta's and Georgia's continued economic growth and overall quality-of-life.

Though many sparsely populated parts of the state outside of Metro Atlanta often see many (but not all) of their logistical and economic development needs funded by way of the Governor's Road Improvement Program (or GRIP).
https://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/prog...ages/GRIP.aspx

https://www.dot.ga.gov/Projects/prog...ap/GRIPMAP.pdf

Second-tier metro areas like Augusta, Columbus, Macon and Savannah are benefitting from recent and ongoing major state-funded transportation projects like:

> The Fall Line Freeway (which connects Columbus, Macon and Augusta and is nearing completion)...

> The Savannah River Parkway (which connects Augusta and Savannah)...

> The Jimmy Deloach Parkway extension which when completed will connect the Port of Savannah with Interstates 95 and 16...

> The deepening of the Savannah River channel and the continued expansion of the Port of Savannah.

Even though Georgia's second-tier metros and sparsely populated areas have seen a substantial amount of transportation investment at the state level by way of projects like those mentioned above, I agree that Georgia's second-tier metro areas need to see more transportation investment in the form of high-speed regional commuter and interurban passenger rail service connections to Atlanta and continued road improvements, upgrades and expansions.

But Metro Atlanta's unique transportation needs have been ignored by the state for so long that those needs have reached crisis-level proportions.

Georgia's second-tier metros are very important to the state's well-being but it is Metro Atlanta that is the state's economic engine.

Without Metro Atlanta, Georgia's population and economy is very likely the size of only Alabama.

When the economic well-being of Metro Atlanta suffers, the economic well-being of the entire state suffers.

Likewise, a strong Georgia outside of Metro Atlanta only serves to make Metro Atlanta that much stronger....Which is why we need high-speed rail connections between Atlanta and outlying cities like Macon, Columbus, Rome, etc....So that people can live in those outlying cities and easily commute to work and do business in Metro Atlanta and vice versa.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by columbusmetro89

Yeah but the bad thing about this is atlanta will get most of the money for transportation projects. The other cities in georgia hardly won't get anything.Augusta Columbus Macon Savannah are growing cities too may not be a fast as atlanta but were still growing.

I must agree with Born.

You guys in the smaller metros have to stop blaming us for Georgia's overall lack in funding transportation. We aren't the cause. We aren't being funded adaquetly either.

In fact we get less from the state, than we send it. We are effectively subsidizing the rest of the state and this includes transportation.

The ultimate problem is we aren't giving the GDOT enough revenue to do their job state-wide.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I'm sorry, I just don't see the purpose for putting together such an expensive and complicated system when it is far simpler not to

I agree that it is today. But on down the line as all these systems and information continue to expand and interconnect plus shifting away from gas powered cars, automated tolling will not only become the simpler option but also a necessity to make up for lost revenue.

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by columbusmetro89

Yeah but the bad thing about this is atlanta will get most of the money for transportation projects. The other cities in georgia hardly won't get anything.Augusta Columbus Macon Savannah are growing cities too may not be a fast as atlanta but were still growing.

You are really comparing the traffic in Columbus/etc to Atlanta?? I'm a south Georgia native but come on... Atlanta should get at least 85% of the money...

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Don't worry Matt. Tin foil hats will make you invisible to them, just like the dozens of red light, security and other cameras you already pass today.

None of those feed into a single, central database DESIGNED to track your every move, most of them also require warrants to access as the vast majority are in private hands. Red Light cameras are also not always-on, or at least not supposed to be. You're reaching, and still falling short.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Red Light cameras are also not always-on, or at least not supposed to be.

I knew it! They are on to us.

But the MARTA security cameras you were touting in the other thread are not tied into this secret central NSA spying system, right?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

It will just be read automatically. There are already metering systems that the insurance companies offer. They've been talking about it in Congress.

I don't like it because of the invasion of privacy. But technologically, its not that hard.

Yeah. Or odometer recordings are already taken at emissions inspections as it is.

I am sure it would have enough to pass, but I would not doubt a nutty faction of congress going over the top at the suggestion of a "tracking device" in every vehicle.