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The issue here is the added shuttle route ran at a large profit on operations alone. It only ended up costing a small amount when capital expenses (ie. depreciation on the buses) were accounted for.
So the Braves shuttle was actually one of the cheapest subsidies to get cars off the road, especially in areas that had high, concentrated transportation demand.
It also became appealing, given that MARTA consistently has a surplus on the mandated capital use only tax receipts and were always struggling for operational funds. So given the state mandated laws, locally the Braves Shuttle was a beneficial move in many ways.
Again, that pedestrian bridge is beneficial for Cumberland with or without the Braves, and it was discussed as part of the Master Plan process before the Braves' decided to move to Cobb.
Those two corners were always the most separated on the interchange. Cobb Pkwy is a wall and not fun to walk along. As someone noticed, some of the "sidewalk" along the Galleria is trodded down grass. The streetscapes just OTP or up on Aker's Mill don't change that. Fix that, and cars still fly by at 55+ mph. Not pedestrian-friendly at all, and there's really nothing that can be done to change that. Not the median, not some kind of divergent diamond underpass. Not anything. It's just too congested right there at I-285 on Cobb Pkwy.
The Braves plus the ARC report, etc were just excuses to do something that needed to be done anyway, had already been talked about: Namely to connect two sides of Cumberland, and also have the Braves acquire part of the land for Cobb in the process. The only real difference is the concept evolved from having just pedestrians to pedestrians and shuttles. Kind of a cool evolution, if you ask me.
Again, that pedestrian bridge is beneficial for Cumberland with or without the Braves, and it was discussed as part of the Master Plan process before the Braves' decided to move to Cobb.
Those two corners were always the most separated on the interchange. Cobb Pkwy is a wall and not fun to walk along. As someone noticed, some of the "sidewalk" along the Galleria is trodded down grass. The streetscapes just OTP or up on Aker's Mill don't change that. Fix that, and cars still fly by at 55+ mph. Not pedestrian-friendly at all, and there's really nothing that can be done to change that. Not the median, not some kind of divergent diamond underpass. Not anything. It's just too congested right there at I-285 on Cobb Pkwy.
The Braves plus the ARC report, etc were just excuses to do something that needed to be done anyway, had already been talked about: Namely to connect two sides of Cumberland, and also have the Braves acquire part of the land for Cobb in the process. The only real difference is the concept evolved from having just pedestrians to pedestrians and shuttles. Kind of a cool evolution, if you ask me.
Reduce the speed limit. Have Cobb County PD heavily enforce the speed limit. Remove the surface parking lots and bring buildings closer to the street to make the road appear less wide open, which drivers will increase their speed when they feel the road is wide open.
No thanks. That's why pedestrian bridges were invented. I think 45mph is slow enough. That's why this new bridge is great. Cobb Pkwy isn't some two-lane road that can have HAWK crossings. With this pedestrian bridge, the entire center of Cumberland will be walkable without touching Cobb Pkwy. There will be pedestrian bridges all the way from the mall to the stadium area. That opens them all up to the transfer station and GPAC as well, and makes it easier to walk to/from Smyrna too (a little out of the way). Hopefully, the median coming will make crossing South of Aker's Mill less intimidating. The rest of the district has trails and such, though Interstate N Pkwy needs some work.
I think lower speed collector lanes on Cobb Pkwy would make things less intimidating for people on the sidewalks, and offer another island for people crossing the road. I think the logistics of that would be tough because it isn't designed for having collector lanes (stop lights, etc)
Maybe the area right near the interchange could handle collectors to slow down traffic near the sidewalks. Then people would be forced to do U-turns if in the wrong lane, but I think they'd survive.
Last edited by netdragon; 08-10-2015 at 09:33 AM..
Yes, I believe all the great walkable cities are known for their pedestrian bridges over all their roads...
(end sarcasm)
We're talking about a highway interchange right there. You aren't going to stick a coffee shop on the exit ramp. There's nothing that can be done for the damage that I-285 already does, other than bridge over that whole mess.
Cobb Pkwy is the worst between Galleria Pkwy and Windy Ridge/Spring Rd b/c of that interchange.
No thanks. That's why pedestrian bridges were invented. I think 45mph is slow enough. That's why this new bridge is great. Cobb Pkwy isn't some two-lane road that can have HAWK crossings. With this pedestrian bridge, the entire center of Cumberland will be walkable without touching Cobb Pkwy. There will be pedestrian bridges all the way from the mall to the stadium area. That opens them all up to the transfer station and GPAC as well, and makes it easier to walk to/from Smyrna too (a little out of the way). Hopefully, the median coming will make crossing South of Aker's Mill less intimidating. The rest of the district has trails and such, though Interstate N Pkwy needs some work.
I think lower speed collector lanes on Cobb Pkwy would make things less intimidating for people on the sidewalks, and offer another island for people crossing the road. I think the logistics of that would be tough because it isn't designed for having collector lanes (stop lights, etc)
Maybe the area right near the interchange could handle collectors to slow down traffic near the sidewalks. Then people would be forced to do U-turns if in the wrong lane, but I think they'd survive.
If Cumberland is serious about becoming a walkable, mixed-use, business district, then it needs to encourage high levels of pedestrian activity. If drivers want to 'go fast' there are 2 freeways; one going N-S and another going E-W for them to use. I don't understand your logic in saying that peds need to be removed from the street in Cumberland, but others criticize downtown for not having enough peds on street level. Adding more people to the sidewalk makes the area feel safer, because it looks inviting and there are more eyes on the street to watch out for each other. The idea of removing peds from street is an old model of thinking and many new urban planners have attacked it. Look at Downtown Houston, which has the underground system of tunnels and mall. This system has reduced the number of peds on the street and makes the area feel less inviting to other peds. At 40 mph, a peds is 90% more likely to be killed by a car, reduce it to 30 is 50% and the number drops significantly. Kill speed
How is Cumberland ever suppose to be a walkable, business district if there is a 6 lane highway splitting it with cars driving over 45 mph and all the pedestrians are walking above the ground on walkways? Y0u have a very suburban way of thinking for Cobb County's #1 business district and it will never compete with Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, and even Perimeter Center if the policy makers continue to put cars above people.
I don't understand your logic in saying that peds need to be removed from the street in Cumberland, but others criticize downtown for not having enough peds on street level.
I didn't say they need to be removed from the street. I meant the pedestrian bridge makes the speed on Cobb Pkwy irrelevant (at least in the most problematic area) since they won't even touch Cobb Pkwy.
Just so you and other people don't get confused, I'm talking specifically about this and only this area of the interchange between Cobb Pkwy and I-285 (and I-75 and I-285 separately, but not in this case about speeds on Cobb Pkwy). I'm not talking about all of Cumberland. This is a very small problematic area... This area is all exits and entrances, and there's no room for vibrant on-street shopping, and no real solution other than getting rid of the exits and entrances to a major artery from the perimeter. The best thing that can be done for pedestrians is create a way over it and connect walkable areas on either side.
Once you get past Circle 75 and Galleria Pkwy on either side, things get better. It's this perimeter underpass that is the extremely pedestrian-unfriendly area (and it'll get worse). It's like trying to make the connector midtown more walkable. You can only do it by bridging over it / covering it up.
I didn't say they need to be removed from the street. I meant the pedestrian bridge makes the speed on Cobb Pkwy irrelevant (at least in the most problematic area) since they won't even touch Cobb Pkwy.
Just so you and other people don't get confused, I'm talking specifically about this and only this area of the interchange between Cobb Pkwy and I-285 (and I-75 and I-285 separately, but not in this case about speeds on Cobb Pkwy). I'm not talking about all of Cumberland. This is a very small problematic area... This area is all exits and entrances, and there's no room for vibrant on-street shopping, and no real solution other than getting rid of the exits and entrances to a major artery from the perimeter. The best thing that can be done for pedestrians is create a way over it and connect walkable areas on either side.
Once you get past Circle 75 and Galleria Pkwy on either side, things get better. It's this perimeter underpass that is the extremely pedestrian-unfriendly area (and it'll get worse). It's like trying to make the connector midtown more walkable. You can only do it by bridging over it / covering it up.
The epidemic problem of speeding in Cobb County will kill all pedestrian activity in Cumberland. until the speed limit is reduced, enforcement is increased, and better urban design Cumberland will never become a walkable urban district. I blame the epidemic speeding on Cobb County's BOC. They limit the number of roads Cobb PD can do speed patrol on and restrict it to only at least 5 mph over the speed limit. At that point the cars are going 50 mph thru the heart of Cumberland and any peds hit will almost certainly die.
The epidemic problem of speeding in Cobb County will kill all pedestrian activity in Cumberland. until the speed limit is reduced, enforcement is increased, and better urban design Cumberland will never become a walkable urban district. I blame the epidemic speeding on Cobb County's BOC. They limit the number of roads Cobb PD can do speed patrol on and restrict it to only at least 5 mph over the speed limit. At that point the cars are going 50 mph thru the heart of Cumberland and any peds hit will almost certainly die.
Actually, the State prohibits all police departments (not including GSP) from issuing tickets when the driver is going 10 MPH or less over the limit. Cobb Police can't address this issue. Lowering the speed limit could help, of course, but I'm not even sure who has control over those, as Cobb Parkway is a state (and federal) highway.
I'm honestly not sure which buildings you'd propose moving closer to Cobb Parkway in order to make it more friendly towards pedestrians. The Galleria office towers aren't going anywhere. Neither are the structures at Cumberland Mall or Akers Mill Square. As much as we might like it to be possible, it would cost an absurd amount of money to make this stretch of Cobb Parkway itself truly walkable by relocating buildings to be closer to the street. The pedestrian bridge helps do the next best thing: connecting an area that is already pretty walkable - the part of the Galleria away from Cobb Parkway - with a development that is clearly being planned as pretty pedestrian friendly - the Braves complex.
If you doubt that the area is at all walkable, these urban geographers, who come from outside the region and have no horse in this race, say that, in fact, it is one of the region's established walkable urban places (Walk-UPs), with some work yet to do, of course. A very brief excerpt:
"Cumberland-Core is one of the largest employment concentrations in the entire state of Georgia, but has historically been an auto-oriented Edge City, in the mold of Tysons Corner in the Washington area. However, aggressive place management and an investment in pedestrian infrastructure have helped this area to begin the transition to a more walkable environment. Cumberland-Core is currently undertaking a rezoning process to support more walkable development and an under-utilized, 50-acre parcel with an oversized surface parking lot may be a key opportunity for catalytic redevelopment that advances this transition. However, there is a near-total absence of for-sale housing and it achieves very low rents for its rental housing. The development of additional housing of both types could help further advance the vitality and economic performance of the WalkUP."
This is a pretty fair assessment, in my opinion. The report on the entire ATL region (great read, right here: http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/documents/walkup-wake-up-atlanta.pdf) was written well before the Braves project was even a rumor, and the lack of housing is starting to be addressed by projects both associated with and unrelated to (but adjacent to) the Braves development.
The area certainly has a ways to go in terms of being pedestrian friendly, but to write it off entirely is simply foolish, and current plans will help the progress much more than they'll hinder it.
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