3 MARTA expansions- Clifton Corridor, Connect 400 and I-20 East. What order would you prioritize them? (Atlanta: sales, house)

[MattCW]

Another reason for I-20 East over GA-400 or Clifton is that I-20 East can be broken down into two (basically separate) components, of which the latter has two phases. There's the BRT from Wesley Chapel into Atlanta, that can probably be built within two years of receiving funding and doesn't require a full environmental impact statement, just an environmental assessment which if it isn't done, should be close. The funding for it is also substantially less. Then the HRT component is broken down into two phases, Indian Creek to Wesley Chapel, then Wesley Chapel to Stonecrest. Just building phase 1 of the HRT would be a HUGE plus for South Dekalb, especially when connected to the BRT at Wesley Chapel and augmented by limited-stop buses using I-20 from Lithonia like how the GA-400 routes operate to North Springs.

It's harder to break GA-400 and Clifton into discrete phases. You might could make an argument for stopping GA-400 at Holcomb Bridge, but it'd be very hard and by the time you reach Northpoint, why not go all the way to Windward? For Clifton, you might can make the argument of stopping at Emory from Lindbergh, but that's also hard to justify at this point.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

I had to take DART in Dallas last week from the airport and I saw firsthand how terrible light rail is. It was painfully slow and once we got into downtown it basically turned into a streetcar. We had to wait at lights like we were a car at any other red light. Even away from the city we had to go slow in a lot of places. Like 25 mph slow at times. Then there's also the negative effect on local roads that have to stop traffic. Really appreciate MARTA after that!

One thing is is nice about DART is that counties don't have to approve expansion. Just cities. So if Plano wants a rail line (they actually have it now) but Allen and McKinney are against it (with the rest of Collin County), Plano can still approve it and pay for it while the other cities won't get service. Imagine if Cumberland could do the same. Screw the rest of Cobb, Cumberland could approve it, pay for it and get service. But it reflects a difference between Texas and GA as far as how cities and counties are treated.

Dallas has been planning to improve downtown, putting a good part of one line in subway, but didn't have enough money for it, so its on the back burner.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Another reason for I-20 East over GA-400 or Clifton is that I-20 East can be broken down into two (basically separate) components, of which the latter has two phases. There's the BRT from Wesley Chapel into Atlanta, that can probably be built within two years of receiving funding and doesn't require a full environmental impact statement, just an environmental assessment which if it isn't done, should be close. The funding for it is also substantially less. Then the HRT component is broken down into two phases, Indian Creek to Wesley Chapel, then Wesley Chapel to Stonecrest. Just building phase 1 of the HRT would be a HUGE plus for South Dekalb, especially when connected to the BRT at Wesley Chapel and augmented by limited-stop buses using I-20 from Lithonia like how the GA-400 routes operate to North Springs.

It's harder to break GA-400 and Clifton into discrete phases. You might could make an argument for stopping GA-400 at Holcomb Bridge, but it'd be very hard and by the time you reach Northpoint, why not go all the way to Windward? For Clifton, you might can make the argument of stopping at Emory from Lindbergh, but that's also hard to justify at this point.

There's miles of basically nothing beyond Northpoint Mall. The stops between there and Alpharetta get minimal ridership.

Emory is two parts-the most important being Lindberg to Emory. The other part serves SE DeKalb and also is intended to serve DeKalb Medical and the area surrounding it. The trips tend to come from either Gwinnet or SE DeKalb.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by bu2

They've decided to build several miles of tunnels for the light rail, so it is going to be a very expensive light rail line.

Yep.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by bu2

Dallas has been planning to improve downtown, putting a good part of one line in subway, but didn't have enough money for it, so its on the back burner.

They need it. I was going to Mockingbird Station which is a short distance but it was by far the quickest. Pretty much just subway the whole way. It's the downtown section that's so slow.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Ha-Mez

I think they're all important and they're all needed. But if you had to pick one to get done first, what would it be?

Discuss.

400, I-20, and Clifton. In that order. Clifton goes last for the simple reason that the locals, for reasons I do not understand, prefer LRT to HRT.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by bu2

There's miles of basically nothing beyond Northpoint Mall. The stops between there and Alpharetta get minimal ridership.

No, I'm not talking about to Cumming, I'm talking about to Windward parkway. There is lots of development, a huge ATT data center, and it's 3 miles to Windward from Northpoint.

Emory is two parts-the most important being Lindberg to Emory. The other part serves SE DeKalb and also is intended to serve DeKalb Medical and the area surrounding it. The trips tend to come from either Gwinnet or SE DeKalb.

There's more than just a line on a map. Part of the issue for Clifton is the storage/maintenance yard. There's not enough room at Armour for a full LRT yard but there are several industrial tracts near Avondale for storage.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

400, I-20, and Clifton. In that order. Clifton goes last for the simple reason that the locals, for reasons I do not understand, prefer LRT to HRT.

I think they don't want either and LRT is a slightly less intrusive than HRT. I went to one of their hearings and all the people who lived near the line were opposed.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by MattCW

No, I'm not talking about to Cumming, I'm talking about to Windward parkway. There is lots of development, a huge ATT data center, and it's 3 miles to Windward from Northpoint.

There's more than just a line on a map. Part of the issue for Clifton is the storage/maintenance yard. There's not enough room at Armour for a full LRT yard but there are several industrial tracts near Avondale for storage.

Another reason not to do light rail.

3 miles is a long way at $100 million+ a mile.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think they don't want either and LRT is a slightly less intrusive than HRT. I went to one of their hearings and all the people who lived near the line were opposed.

But why? Are they afraid that they're going to get electrocuted by the third rail? That the trains will be louder?