Religious Freedom Bill Does not Survive House Judiciary (Gay: racist, teach)

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

No worries. The Bible teaches us that it is a blessing to be persecuted for one's faith.

You have the misfortune of belonging to the dominant religious faith in a society that modestly restrains your power to impose those beliefs upon others. If "persecution" is a blessing, you're not that blessed.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by joey86

I would be impressed if the Bible had mentioned evolution, galaxies, gravity, germs, cells, or any number of other things that are central to the many fields of science. Instead, we have suggestions on when to cut off part of a baby penis.

You conveniently ignored ever other example I gave.

Originally Posted by Cameron H

"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits."

"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."

"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?"

"To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure."

"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

SCIENCE!

Or magic...I mean, how else could they figure which way the wind blows, or when baby penis incisions are likely to bleed less?

The explanation is simply that the words written are inspired by the creator of everything Who has intimate knowledge of it.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by Cameron H

You have the misfortune of belonging to the dominant religious faith in a society that modestly restrains your power to impose those beliefs upon others. If "persecution" is a blessing, you're not that blessed.

This was a response to another post. I have never myself claimed to be persecuted.

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

I see the problem here...being gay is not something someone DOES, but something someone IS. It's not a sex act, but an orientation toward the same sex. I believe this is the root of the problem with a certain sector of society that thinks they are experts on a subject that they know very little about and won't listen to the people who actually do know something about it - in other words, ignorance.

Another huge problem is that many of these hateful "Christians" (not true Christians) don't realize that a large percentage of the American gay population also identifies as Christian. In most of the new stories I hear on this subject they act as if gay people are not part of their own belief system when that just is not true.

If we could get past these two roadblocks I think there would be greater understanding and acceptance...but some people will not even try due to their deeply held personal hatred and disgust for gays. It's truly not religious conviction or there would be many other religious convictions held to a similar standard.

This is unfortunately very true of a lot of Christians. However, the reason I am confident in talking about these issues is that this description does not apply to me. I have many gay friends that I love and I in fact do understand this issue quite well.

[Tryska]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

This is unfortunately very true of a lot of Christians. However, the reason I am confident in talking about these issues is that this description does not apply to me. I have many gay friends that I love and I in fact do understand this issue quite well.

Since you are a friend to the gays, and you do in fact understand this issue well, could you please respond to my question that I posted earlier? I have reposted it here:

Originally Posted by Tryska

Has some private business owner actually been threatened with fines and or jail for such? Other than justices of the peace, whose job it is to marry whomever shows up at a Courthouse with the appropriate paperwork? (not in a private church mind you - at the courthouse)

[Tryska]

Actually - I went ahead and did my own research - turns out that no, it has never happened, but apparently a Wedding Chapel in Cour D'alene Iowa has gone ahead and martyred themselves as a prophylactic measure. I'm gonna need to call astro-turfed shenanigans here:

There is one major problem with all this outrage, according to city officials in Coeur d’Alene: The owners of the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel do not face arrest or fines or any other penalty for refusing to marry same-sex couples.

The lawsuit argues that Coeur d’Alene’s non-discrimination ordinance -- which was passed last year and bars businesses and public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity -- will “unconstitutionally” force the Knapps to either “violate their religious convictions and ministerial vows” by performing same-sex weddings or face jail time and fines. According to the suit, the city has “privately and publicly threatened to apply” the ordinance to the Hitching Post.

However, according to city officials and the lawsuit itself, the Hitching Post filed papers with the Idaho Secretary of State identifying itself as a religious corporation on Oct. 6, the day before the 9th Circuit struck down Idaho’s ban. The city’s ordinance explicitly states that religious corporations are exempt from the law.
The lawsuit came as a surprise to city officials, who described conversations with the Knapps up until last week as “cordial.”

“We have never threatened them. We have never sent them a letter warning them. There was no ‘we’re going to throw you in jail’ kind of stuff. So we were mildly surprised, well, totally surprised by the lawsuit,” City Attorney Mike Gridley told The Huffington Post.

Moreover, while the lawsuit claims that the Knapps have already turned away multiple same-sex couples, Gridley said that the city had received no complaints about the Hitching Post and had no idea who these couples might be.

How did the Knapps come up with that jaw-dropping figure of 180 years? According to the lawsuit, the city ordinance sets forth fines up to $1,000 and jail time up to 180 days for every day of a violation. The Knapps' complaint reasons that they "risk going to jail for 180 years and being fined $365,000" if they refuse to marry one couple for one year.
Is that a real possibility? Gridley laughed. “That's not correct. Again,” he said.
“I want to make clear," said Gridley, "that the Hitching Post, or any other minister that I’m aware of, is not subject to our ordinance."

The Knapps declined to comment on the case.

The lawsuit did not come as a surprise to gay rights advocates and legal experts, who see this case as the latest in a string of lawsuits and proposed laws intended to exempt Christians opposed to same-sex marriage from participating in any way in same-sex weddings. Over the last several years, lawsuits concerning bakers, photographers, florists and owners of wedding venues who declined to serve same-sex couples have played out in the courts. Overwhelmingly, judges have sided with the same-sex couples.

The Hitching Post case stands out, however -- not only because it is the first of these cases to involve ordained clergy, but also because no complaint has been filed against the Knapps, and because their business already appears to be exempt from the non-discrimination ordinance in Coeur d’Alene.

Full story here:

Two Ministers Claim They Could Face 180 Years In Jail For Refusing To Do Gay Weddings

[joey86]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Apart from those events, in fact there is nothing in the Bible that has been shown to be inaccurate.

The flood didn't happen, it got the age of the universe wrong, we are a product of evolution, the Jews probably weren't slaves in Egypt, virgin birth is impossible....many of the central teachings are disprovable or baseless.

[PJA]

Originally Posted by joey86

The flood didn't happen, it got the age of the universe wrong, we are a product of evolution, the Jews probably weren't slaves in Egypt, virgin birth is impossible....many of the central teachings are disprovable or baseless.

Proof?? Even the scientists can't agree on this one.

[joey86]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

You conveniently ignored ever other example I gave.

I ignored them because the verses are too vague to take seriously. If you can answer my following question, then we will talk.

Did any Christians take the examples you gave to mean the things that you are saying they proved, before science proved them?

[joey86]

Originally Posted by PJA

Proof?? Even the scientists can't agree on this one.

There is a clear scientific consensus. There is zero debate on this in scientific circles.

[PJA]

Originally Posted by joey86

There is a clear scientific consensus. There is zero debate on this in scientific circles.

Actually no there's not. I've read several conflicting studies on evolution.