Georgia DOT eyes tunnel, double-deck for Downtown Connector (Atlanta, Griffin: real estate, houses)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by architect77

The cheapest solution would be to build an I-75 bypass west of I-285 to get Florida-bound traffic separated from local Atlanta traffic.

New interstates can be built through undeveloped countryside for very little money. Look at NC, which has constructed probably 1,000 miles of new divided highways over the past 30 years.

An I-75 bypass would take 40,000 vehicles off the downtown connector.

Problem solved for about $2 billion.

What kind of commuter rail system could we implement on upgraded, existing rail corridors if simple stations are built and we use refurbished railcars? Building an outer loop would just create more sprawl.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Cars are already way too computerized which has already caused all kinds of problems on their own, the last thing we need to do is make it easier for third parties to make things even worse!

Not to be rude, but y'all are crazy!

Hacking critical infrastrucuture is way more destructive than hacking cars. Right now, a significant portion of red lights are networked and could be hacked. Are you scared that someone is going to hack them and turn them all green a la Die Hard 4? Not to mention the wanton devastation of everyone's lives if the power grid is taken down.

Computers in cars is one of the biggest reasons for the reduction of fatalities on the roads. Thanks to things like ABS, air bags, adaptive cruise control, and traction control, inept human drivers are saved from their own and other's mistakes.

People apparently have no idea how profound the safety implications are for automated cars. Version 1.0 will likely see a 90% drop in fatalities. Over time, it will drop even further. Computers pay 100% attention 100% of the time. Most people I see driving have their head down looking at a screen. Even if there is some hacking, it will be safer than humans behind the wheel.

All this, on top of the huge implications to traffic and congestion, reduction of cars owned, etc. Its a total game changer and it should be considered to a degree in planning.

[jsvh]

tiki - Dead on.

Originally Posted by architect77

The cheapest solution would be to build an I-75 bypass west of I-285 to get Florida-bound traffic separated from local Atlanta traffic.

New interstates can be built through undeveloped countryside for very little money. Look at NC, which has constructed probably 1,000 miles of new divided highways over the past 30 years.

An I-75 bypass would take 40,000 vehicles off the downtown connector.

Problem solved for about $2 billion.

But thru traffic is not the real issue. And even if you still build a by-pass many out of towners will still take the more direct route because they don't know otherwise.

You need to find solutions for the daily commuters. That is the source of the traffic.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by jsvh

But thru traffic is not the real issue. And even if you still build a by-pass many out of towners will still take the more direct route because they don't know otherwise.

Could we get Google and the likes to program their navigation systems to utilize a slightly less direct bypass instead of the most direct route? That could probably help some.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Could we get Google and the likes to program their navigation systems to utilize a slightly less direct bypass instead of the most direct route? That could probably help some.

I don't think you want government trying to force that upon companies. But think a lot of GPS systems are starting to factor in traffic and tolls. Tolling the downtown connector is the best solution IMO, it will encourage people to use other transportation options and by-passes (but I was mistaken when I suggested that tolling existing interstates was legalized by the US Gov, it is not, just proposed).

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I don't think you want government trying to force that upon companies. But think a lot of GPS systems are starting to factor in traffic and tolls. Tolling the downtown connector is the best solution IMO, it will encourage people to use other transportation options and by-passes (but I was mistaken when I suggested that tolling existing interstates was legalized by the US Gov, it is not, just proposed).

You would have to be careful how you tolled though. I like the idea, just with exemptions for those who live inside, or within a couple mile radius of 285. Maybe peach pass readers at every entrance just inside 285? Run the peach pass lanes up and down the main interstates, let busses use them and the HOV lanes. Use the revenue to fund roadwork itp and transit out into the region. Let them fund GRTA bus and rail.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Not to be rude, but y'all are crazy!

Hacking critical infrastrucuture is way more destructive than hacking cars. Right now, a significant portion of red lights are networked and could be hacked. Are you scared that someone is going to hack them and turn them all green a la Die Hard 4? Not to mention the wanton devastation of everyone's lives if the power grid is taken down.

Computers in cars is one of the biggest reasons for the reduction of fatalities on the roads. Thanks to things like ABS, air bags, adaptive cruise control, and traction control, inept human drivers are saved from their own and other's mistakes.

People apparently have no idea how profound the safety implications are for automated cars. Version 1.0 will likely see a 90% drop in fatalities. Over time, it will drop even further. Computers pay 100% attention 100% of the time. Most people I see driving have their head down looking at a screen. Even if there is some hacking, it will be safer than humans behind the wheel.

All this, on top of the huge implications to traffic and congestion, reduction of cars owned, etc. Its a total game changer and it should be considered to a degree in planning.

The power grid in Iran got hacked.

Those things are probably a lot more carefully guarded than the driverless software would be. There would be frequent downloads to update things like maps. And a crazy driverless car(s) would get tons of publicity. That is as much a goal for the hackers as destruction.

[Sualpine]

Fire them all.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by architect77

The cheapest solution would be to build an I-75 bypass west of I-285 to get Florida-bound traffic separated from local Atlanta traffic.

New interstates can be built through undeveloped countryside for very little money. Look at NC, which has constructed probably 1,000 miles of new divided highways over the past 30 years.

An I-75 bypass would take 40,000 vehicles off the downtown connector.

Problem solved for about $2 billion.

Originally Posted by bu2

I was reading this "very little money" and then realized you were speaking relatively-$2 billion.

Cartersville wanted one about 4 years ago, but GDOT wasn't supportive and some of the rural counties didn't like the idea. I agree with you and think a toll road from Cartersville to I-85 near Newnan to Griffin to I-75 and up to I-85 in Gwinnett would be very beneficial to Atlanta.

I personally like the idea of an Outer Perimeter-type bypass, not only to take some long-distance/through traffic off of the Downtown Connector and the Interstate system through Atlanta, but also for economic development purposes.

An Outer Perimeter-type bypass around Atlanta could be used to attract more commercial and industrial development to North Georgia (...biomed, tech, manufacturing, warehousing, logistical, etc).

The biggest problem is that the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass concept appears to continue to be extremely unpopular with the Georgia electorate about 12 years after the original highly-controversial Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc concept was officially cancelled by state government due to widespread unpopularity.

The seemingly extreme unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass idea underscores the extreme and critical importance of investing in a regional high-capacity multimodal transit system for the road infrastructure-challenged Atlanta metro region and North Georgia.

While much of the Georgia electorate has not necessarily been all that fond of transit, the Georgia electorate has shown (particularly in the 2002 Gubernatorial Election and the rejection of the 2012 T-SPLOST) that they are even less enamored with the idea of building a second Perimeter 30 or more miles outside of the I-285 Perimeter.

We really desperately need both an Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass and a vastly upgraded and expanded regional high-capacity multimodal transit system.

But because the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass concept seems to continue to be so unpopular with the electorate and does not seem to be politically doable, upgrades and expansions to the regional high-capacity transit network seems to be the primary way to proceed....Though, even that course of action will be a real uphill battle at this point.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I personally like the idea of an Outer Perimeter-type bypass, not only to take some long-distance/through traffic off of the Downtown Connector and the Interstate system through Atlanta, but also for economic development purposes.

An Outer Perimeter-type bypass around Atlanta could be used to attract more commercial and industrial development to North Georgia (...biomed, tech, manufacturing, warehousing, logistical, etc).

The biggest problem is that the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass concept appears to continue to be extremely unpopular with the Georgia electorate about 12 years after the original highly-controversial Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc concept was officially cancelled by state government due to widespread unpopularity.

The seemingly extreme unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass idea underscores the extreme and critical importance of investing in a regional high-capacity multimodal transit system for the road infrastructure-challenged Atlanta metro region and North Georgia.

While much of the Georgia electorate has not necessarily been all that fond of transit, the Georgia electorate has shown (particularly in the 2002 Gubernatorial Election and the rejection of the 2012 T-SPLOST) that they are even less enamored with the idea of building a second Perimeter 30 or more miles outside of the I-285 Perimeter.

We really desperately need both an Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass and a vastly upgraded and expanded regional high-capacity multimodal transit system.

But because the Outer Perimeter/Outer Bypass concept seems to continue to be so unpopular with the electorate and does not seem to be politically doable, upgrades and expansions to the regional high-capacity transit network seems to be the primary way to proceed....Though, even that course of action will be a real uphill battle at this point.

The TSPLOST didn't have any outer perimeter work.

I think its also important for suburb to suburb commuting. If you don't build it too far out, you won't just keep through traffic out of Atlanta, you will keep some OTP commuters.