2000 room Hotel at GWCC

[ATL Golfer]

You make a very bad troll JMatl.

So you're advocating for a Downtown 'Hilton Cartel' to protect existing properties from new rooms being added to the market? That's anti-competitive, and smacks of some sort of smarmy backroom mafia line of thought in my opinion.

Its the same parent brand and reservation system. Creating competition among your own brands in a sub market is something most franchise companies like to avoid for their franchisees. Advocating a Hilton Cartel? I'm not sure you understand what I wrote.

You can't be serious here? Do you honestly believe that the State, their consultants and the developer didn't do due diligence on a $400 million project?

People did their due diligence on the last full service hotel to enter the downtown market. That one was only $160MM or so. Foreclosed on before they opened its doors.

In my former life, for 10 yrs, I originated and underwrote hotel construction loans for a group that did nearly 300 loans for limited/select service hotel loans. We didn't focus on any other asset class, it was our expertise. But what do I know?

Hotel maybe a wild success with its location. But that is a rather large and risky $400MM bet imo.
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[JMatl]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

You make a very bad troll JMatl.

Calling someone a troll is a violation of the Terms of Service here. Don't do it again.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

David Marvin and Legacy Ventures, owner Embassy Suites and Hilton Garden Inn, must be thrilled that 1,001 rooms from the same reservation system will be built in his backyard. I would sue and re-flag immediately...or sell. They just effectively cannibalized his demand.

Quite a difference between an Embassy Suites or Hilton Garden Inn and "what Hilton calls its 'premiere meetings and events brand'". Some different clientele and likely very different budget. Luxury/premiere hotels are never on my list when I travel. Embassy and Garden are both nice, but not in the luxury/premiere range.

Hotel maybe a wild success with its location. But that is a rather large and risky $400MM bet imo.
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It's literally on the property of the fourth-largest convention center in the country, and next door to a stadium which regularly hosts large events, and adjacent to an arena which hosts regular events. I don't think they will have too many problems.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Quite a difference between an Embassy Suites or Hilton Garden Inn and "what Hilton calls its 'premiere meetings and events brand'". Some different clientele and likely very different budget. Luxury/premiere hotels are never on my list when I travel. Embassy and Garden are both nice, but not in the luxury/premiere range.



It's literally on the property of the fourth-largest convention center in the country, and next door to a stadium which regularly hosts large events, and adjacent to an arena which hosts regular events. I don't think they will have too many problems.

Embassy Suites can be pretty good if you're traveling as a family. Especially with ravenous older kids who want to eat everything in sight!

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Embassy Suites can be pretty good if you're traveling as a family. Especially with ravenous older kids who want to eat everything in sight!

I love Embassy Suites. One of my favorite chains.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

I love Embassy Suites. One of my favorite chains.

Same here, we've stayed at them in Boston and Tampa this year. My other half is addicted to their omelets!

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Quite a difference between an Embassy Suites or Hilton Garden Inn and "what Hilton calls its 'premiere meetings and events brand'". Some different clientele and likely very different budget. Luxury/premiere hotels are never on my list when I travel. Embassy and Garden are both nice, but not in the luxury/premiere range.

They are competing for the same convention business. Do you honestly think this property won't adversely affect the HGI and Embassy Suites? This is not the Ritz Carlton in the Caymans competing with the Comfort Inn down the street for leisure demand.

Originally Posted by samiwas1

It's literally on the property of the fourth-largest convention center in the country, and next door to a stadium which regularly hosts large events, and adjacent to an arena which hosts regular events. I don't think they will have too many problems.

Historically the downtown Atlanta market has not crested 70% occupancy. It is an overbuilt market. Its supply is aging, particularly in this segment and perhaps that does present opportunity. However, adding 1,001 rooms to any market that isn't NYC has a massive impact to market dynamics. Trying to achieve those occupancy levels while adding that many rooms will be a tall task. Its nearly the equivalent to building two more Hilton Garden Inns as well as two more Embassy Suites right there.

Time will tell. I may be wrong. I'm not definitively saying this will fail. I think it has a decent chance to succeed but its a big, $400MM risk imo. I do think they would be better suited scaling back the room count. Hopefully it pays back the bond holders.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

They are competing for the same convention business. Do you honestly think this property won't adversely affect the HGI and Embassy Suites? This is not the Ritz Carlton in the Caymans competing with the Comfort Inn down the street for leisure demand.

I think some might go over. But, you were making it sound like those two hotels would be driven to bankruptcy by this hotel. I'd be willing to bet that rooms at this hotel cost 50% or so more than those, so it'll reach somewhat of a different clientele. Maybe not...I guess it depends.

However, adding 1,001 rooms to any market that isn't NYC has a massive impact to market dynamics. Trying to achieve those occupancy levels while adding that many rooms will be a tall task.

I do agree that 1,001 rooms is probably a tad overboard.

[citydwelling]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

Do you honestly think this property won't adversely affect the HGI and Embassy Suites?

Do you honestly think the Ritz-Carlton adversely affects the Marriot Marquis, Fairfield Inn, Residence Inn, Courtyard, Westin, Glenn Hotel, AC Hotel, Sheraton, Aloft, Twelve, Springhill Suites, Renaissance, or other hundred Marriott brands available in downtown?

This ain't nothing new.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by citydwelling

Do you honestly think the Ritz-Carlton adversely affects the Marriot Marquis, Fairfield Inn, Residence Inn, Courtyard, Westin, Glenn Hotel, AC Hotel, Sheraton, Aloft, Twelve, Springhill Suites, Renaissance, or other hundred Marriott brands available in downtown?

This ain't nothing new.

Other hundred? I think you got most. Yes. I do. Some overlap more than others.

I think you're missing my point. Those you have listed have other demand generators. These are all pulling from the GWCC while the Embassy/HGI pull some leisure demand from the aquarium.