MARTA to Gwinnett County? The people want it (Atlanta, Lawrenceville: appointed, homes)

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Currently riders can transfer from MARTA to other transit systems for free and if there is a difference in fare, they pay it, same for transferring yo MARTA, the riders pay the difference. I do know unlimited MARTA pass is not good on CCT if starting out on CCT, but is good if starting on MARTA. That is why you tap your breeze card when exiting a station, to load a transfer.

Cool..I don't trust anyone outside of Marta operating heavy rail because I'm sure they will screw it up.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by afdinatl

Cool..I don't trust anyone outside of Marta operating heavy rail because I'm sure they will screw it up.

But Cobb and Gwinnett are so superior to Fulton and DeKalb.

[afdinatl]

What's crazy is if Cobb and Gwinnett joins Marta that could mean that the length of our system could go from 48 miles to at least 100 miles if we include the Ga 400 expansion

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

With the multiple notorious traffic congestion meltdowns that the Atlanta metro region has experienced as of late and over the years (including the infamous January 2014 traffic meltdown (SnowJam 2014) in which motorists were stranded out on the roads for hours and even days), it is extremely difficult to deny that the Atlanta metro region has both a traffic congestion problem as well as a pervasive INTERNATIONAL perception that the Atlanta metro region has a serious traffic congestion problem and nowhere near enough multimodal transportation options.


The Georgia 400 OTP North Corridor and North Fulton County certainly don't seem to think that the need for high-capacity transit is debatable with their increasing demands for the MARTA Red Line to be extended north to Windward Parkway....Both to give commuters an alternative to sitting in worsening severe rush hour traffic congestion on Georgia 400 and to attract more high-paying jobs and industry to an area that is on the rise.

And the severe traffic jams on and along the OTP stretches of I-75 Northwest, GA 400 North and I-85 Northeast and even I-75 South and I-20 East and West seem to signal that the debate as to whether high-capacity transit service should be extended outside of the I-285 Perimeter is over and has been over for quite awhile as evidenced by this New York Times special report chronicling the severe traffic congestion problems that Metro Atlanta experienced during the summer....the summer of the year 1999!:
CHOKING ON GROWTH - A special report. - In Atlanta, Suburban Comforts Thwart Plans to Limit Sprawl - NYTimes.com

From the article in the link above:

...Again, that description of Metro Atlanta's very severe traffic problems was from the summer of 1999, 16 years ago when the Atlanta region had 2.3 million fewer inhabitants than it does today!

Here in 2015, the debate as to whether we really need high-capacity transit service outside of the I-285 Perimeter should be a thing of the past while we move forward with rail transit extensions that grow our economy and raise our quality-of-life....Particularly with an outlying county like Gwinnett having almost 900,000 residents and being expected to eclipse the 1 million-inhabitant mark sometime within the next 10-15 years or so.

Saying that heavily-populated areas like Gwinnett and Cobb don't need high-capacity transit service outside of the I-285 Perimeter in Metro Atlanta is like saying that heavily-populated areas like Fairfax County, Virginia and Montgomery County, Maryland don't need high-capacity transit outside of the I-495 Capital Beltway in the Washington DC Metro area.

No one would dare say that heavily-populated Washington DC suburbs like Fairfax County, VA (1.1 million inhabitants) and Montgomery County, MD (1 million inhabitants) don't need high-capacity transit because of their locations mostly outside of the I-495 Capital Beltway...

Can you imagine what heavily-populated Washington DC suburbs like Fairfax County, VA and Montgomery County, MD would be like without their high-capacity passenger rail transit infrastructures (DC Metro Heavy Rail Transit and regional commuter rail service operated by the Virginia and Maryland state governments)? The traffic in those areas would be even worse than it is now if those areas did not have heavy rail and commuter rail transit service.

So why would anyone even suggest that high-capacity transit service is not a necessity in heavily-populated and still extremely fast-growing Atlanta suburbs like Cobb County (731,000 inhabitants) and Gwinnett County (878,000 inhabitants) with their exploding populations causing increasingly severe traffic congestion on their limited and built-out road networks that are not expanding with their exploding populations?

If a large major metro region like Washington DC cannot function without regional high-capacity transit service outside of its I-495 Capital Beltway then I don't know what makes people think that a large major metro region like Atlanta (and its arguably worse surface road network) can function without regional high-capacity service outside of its I-285 Perimeter Highway?

Note that I'm not saying Atlanta doesn't have a serious traffic problem. I've argued that it does.

I'm not opposed to high capacity transit into the middle of Cobb, Gwinnett and Clayton. But here's the counter-argument:
The Atlanta metro is one of the least dense major metros in the country.
If there's not ridership now, why do you need that capacity?
There's plenty of land for improved freeways and arterials.
There's plans and opportunities for HOT lanes which could be used for an improved set of park-n-ride buses that would be much cheaper, more flexible, more convenient and possibly quicker than rail (due to fewer stops).

Until about 15 years ago, BART didn't go to the San Francisco airport. In fact, except for the Walnut Creek line, BART didn't go any further than the equivalent of 285.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It could get complicated. Fulton outside the city of Atlanta has a number of sizable cities such as Roswell, Johns Creek, Alpharetta and Sandy Springs. They will no doubt want to be sure their positions are not weakened.

Likewise with DeKalb and its major cities.

That's the point. Atlanta is going to want to keep major control. Those north Fulton cities are going to want to appoint members. The counties will want to appoint members. If Fulton cities get to appoint members, the DeKalb cities will want to. If Gwinnett wanted to be run by Atlanta, they would be annexed-they don't want to be run by Atlanta, so they will have to be placated.

With both Cobb and Gwinnett, I just think spreading board seats around would be easier. Also expanding the system that much more would make current MARTA counties more accepting of sharing the control (and costs). It would still be difficult, but its easier to envision allocation of board seats where no one gets dominated than with just Gwinnett.

[bu2]

DC has double the density of Atlanta. You have to get down to the #68 urban area in population, Baton Rouge, to find the 3rd area with less density than Atlanta. Above that, only #38 Charlotte and #55 Birmingham are less dense.
List of United States urban areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

That's the point. Atlanta is going to want to keep major control. Those north Fulton cities are going to want to appoint members. The counties will want to appoint members. If Fulton cities get to appoint members, the DeKalb cities will want to. If Gwinnett wanted to be run by Atlanta, they would be annexed-they don't want to be run by Atlanta, so they will have to be placated.

With both Cobb and Gwinnett, I just think spreading board seats around would be easier. Also expanding the system that much more would make current MARTA counties more accepting of sharing the control (and costs). It would still be difficult, but its easier to envision allocation of board seats where no one gets dominated than with just Gwinnett.

bu2 - You have brought this up three times now but still have not explained your obsession with thinking Atlanta is pitted against everyone on the MARTA board. Is there any basis in reality?

Edit: Does this go back to your Cobb-fanboyism? You seem to think Gwinnett needs Cobb's permission to join MARTA.

[jsvh]

On the Gwinnett running their own transit, that is not what Gwinnett wants. Only a third have a favorable opinion of GCT but half have a favorable opinion of MARTA.

Seems like the message is clear that Gwinnett wants MARTA, not just generic transit.

Survey: Likely voters support MARTA in Gwinnett | Gwinnett Daily Post

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

bu2 - You have brought this up three times now but still have not explained your obsession with thinking Atlanta is pitted against everyone on the MARTA board. Is there any basis in reality?

Edit: Does this go back to your Cobb-fanboyism? You seem to think Gwinnett needs Cobb's permission to join MARTA.

Again. Learn to read. You might try Arjay's post if you can't understand mine.

[ATLTJL]

The thing here is leaders in Gwinnett aren't dumb.

They realize that intermodal transportation is here to stay and that young people want transit options. They also realize that keeping young people in the county is vital to its longevity. As was said before, something like heavy rail access to Gwinnett Place Mall could really reignite the area in combination with the plans for that area. I could easily envision something like Lindbergh, a miniature "Grand Central Station" that would be the flagship stop for the gold line, or whatever they end up calling it. Personally, I'd like to see the line extend up to Gwinnett Arena, but even if it isn't the terminus of the line, I think Gwinnett Place would be the biggest, most active stop.

Imagine what this would do for the area. Gwinnett, especially the portion around Jimmy Carter, Indian Trail, etc. still has a plethora of inexpensive land and housing. If this land was connected to the city and made more attractive to people who commute to the city, I think it would give the area a real shot in the arm. All of a sudden, people would have the opportunity to have a decent house, decent land, decent schools (in some cases), etc. all while still being within a predictable 30 minute commute to midtown. Sure, it's never going to have the walkability of intown areas and different character for sure, but I think a lot of people would be interested in having a suburban/urban balance and it would only mean good things.

Likewise, people from the city would have easier access to events at Gwinnett Arena and if the Gwinnett Place area is done right with connectivity to McDaniel Farm Park, it might even be something in itself that city dwellers might want to come check out to get a little break from the city life.