The importance of urbanized suburbs

[AfternoonCoffee]

Originally Posted by evannole

Yes, this, exactly! Describes our lives here in downtown Marietta to a T since we moved here, and we are loving it!

Yes--I've enjoyed reading your posts (can't rep you anymore!)

My sister and her wife live in downtown Marietta, too, and they are so happy there. Like you, they both drive to work, but walk a lot on the weekends. They are at the farmers market nearly every Saturday, have great neighbors, a fantastic commute (neither one work in CoA.) In addition to visiting all the new restaurants, they've walked to multiple shows at Square's live theaters! There's definitely an awesome "small-town" vibe in historic Marietta

And their property values seem to have risen quite a bit in year+ since they bought

[evannole]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

Yes--I've enjoyed reading your posts (can't rep you anymore!)

My sister and her wife live in downtown Marietta, too, and they are so happy there. Like you, they both drive to work, but walk a lot on the weekends. They are at the farmers market nearly every Saturday, have great neighbors, a fantastic commute (neither one work in CoA.) In addition to visiting all the new restaurants, they've walked to multiple shows at Square's live theaters! There's definitely an awesome "small-town" vibe in historic Marietta

And their property values seem to have risen quite a bit in year+ since they bought

Thanks for the reps! I wonder if I have seen your sister and her wife. My wife and I are fixtures at the Saturday market... And now the Sunday one is up and running as well! A couple of weeks ago, we walked up there three times in one weekend. Such fun!

Yes, property values are definitely climbing as the area seems quite popular. We have been here less than a year and are still astonished at how quickly things are selling. Good for everyone!

If your handle is indicative of a love of coffee, try Cool Beans on the Square, if you haven't already. Really excellent coffee and a funky, fun environment. Get a cappuccino there and then grab an almond croissant from Douceur de France... Heaven!

[JMatl]

I also agree that our suburban Downtowns urbanizing and bulking up with new commercial/residential development is a great thing, transit connections or not.

It's good for the greater Metro to have these focal points, in every way.

The City is booming, and I love it. But the large majority of our population lives outside the Perimeter. I see the embracing of this trend as a huge positive for all of us.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cqholt

These higher density nodes should be built around a transit station. Building a 'walkable' node that few can get to be walking just adds congestion and makes it a walkable island that people will drive to.

I completely agree that higher-density nodes should generally be built around a transit station and I completely agree with these points.

But if officials in Woodstock and other lower-density suburban and exurban areas waited for high-capacity transit lines to be extended out to their areas before building up and developing their historic downtowns, they would probably have to wait decades before they could act.

Sure building a walkable node that few can get to by walking adds congestion and makes it a walkable island that people will drive to....But those walkable nodes in places like Downtown Woodstock advance the cause of walkability and transit connectivity by helping to make that less automobile-dependent, more walkable lifestyle much more appealing in a metro region where the automobile is by far the overwhelmingly dominant form of transportation and where walkable lifestyles and transit-friendly development patterns have historically been shunned.

Originally Posted by Tryska

Right - while I get Born2Roll's point as well. Is it close to an employment center on it's own?

I feel like, at times maybe we can't see the forest from the trees, presuming all the jobs are at Perimeter or Buckhead or Midtown or Downtown, but Smyrna is also a big employment Center - Marietta too. Not sure what's around Woodstock these days

Woodstock is not immediately close to a major regional employment center but Woodstock is about 6-7 miles or so away from a major regional cluster of commercial and industrial development and employment in the Kennesaw-Kennesaw State University-Town Center/Elizabeth-North Marietta area....An area whose boosters desperately want and need a high-capacity transit connection to and from points south (like Central Atlanta and the world-leading Atlanta Airport).

Originally Posted by Tryska

But I think if you are going to build a live-play 'new urbanist' development in a non-transit served area, you need to build it close enough to walk or bike to the "work" component.

But perhaps they are planning now for 30 years in the future. Which is what they are supposed to be doing lol.

Woodstock officials' main motivation was to revitalize and build-up their historic village-like downtown to become a popular attraction and destination within the Atlanta region....Whether by car or by other modes of transportation in the future, Woodstock officials and boosters want people to come to their city and spend lots of money in their retail, restaurant and drinking establishments like most other towns do urban, suburban, exurban and rural.

...But part of their motivation in doing so was to prepare Downtown Woodstock (which was originally built as a stop on the Georgia Northeastern Railroad (or the GNRR) freight rail line) to be the site of a future transit stop on a potential future rail transit line along the GNRR ROW which had been targeted by the state for a possible regional commuter rail line in the past.

Originally Posted by bu2

I agree that it probably is strongly supported by local leadership (whether it is supported by locals is a different question). But it has been promoted by the ARC and I don't think its beneficial to the region as a whole.

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Why wouldn't this type of redevelopment be beneficial to the region?

The type of redevelopment and "new-suburbanism" development found in outer-suburban and exurban towns like Woodstock is beneficial to the Atlanta region in multiple ways....It is beneficial because:

> It promotes less automobile-dependent walkable lifestyles in overwhelmingly automobile-dependent parts of the region in the outer-suburbs and exurbs over the long-term...

> It promotes and makes more appealing higher-density development styles in parts of the suburbs and exurbs where it is wanted...

> The rising popularity of higher-density development styles in historic suburban and exurban downtowns sets the stage for regional high-capacity transit to be extended out to outlying areas where it will be desperately needed for movement to and from the urban core in the 21st Century as constrained radial roadways (like I-75, I-575, US 41, etc) descend further into gridlock as the Atlanta region's population continues to explode...

> Revitalizes declining historic downtowns into vibrant town centers with a growing sense of community identity...

> Makes these historic downtowns places that both the local community and the Atlanta region as a whole can be proud of.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I completely agree that higher-density nodes should generally be built around a transit station and I completely agree with these points.

But if officials in Woodstock and other lower-density suburban and exurban areas waited for high-capacity transit lines to be extended out to their areas before building up and developing their historic downtowns, they would probably have to wait decades before they could act.

Sure building a walkable node that few can get to by walking adds congestion and makes it a walkable island that people will drive to....But those walkable nodes in places like Downtown Woodstock advance the cause of walkability and transit connectivity by helping to make that less automobile-dependent, more walkable lifestyle much more appealing in a metro region where the automobile is by far the overwhelmingly dominant form of transportation and where walkable lifestyles and transit-friendly development patterns have historically been shunned.


Woodstock is not immediately close to a major regional employment center but Woodstock is about 6-7 miles or so away from a major regional cluster of commercial and industrial development and employment in the Kennesaw-Kennesaw State University-Town Center/Elizabeth-North Marietta area....An area whose boosters desperately want and need a high-capacity transit connection to and from points south (like Central Atlanta and the world-leading Atlanta Airport).


Woodstock officials' main motivation was to revitalize and build-up their historic village-like downtown to become a popular attraction and destination within the Atlanta region....Whether by car or by other modes of transportation in the future, Woodstock officials and boosters want people to come to their city and spend lots of money in their retail, restaurant and drinking establishments like most other towns do urban, suburban, exurban and rural.

...But part of their motivation in doing so was to prepare Downtown Woodstock (which was originally built as a stop on the Georgia Northeastern Railroad (or the GNRR) freight rail line) to be the site of a future transit stop on a potential future rail transit line along the GNRR ROW which had been targeted by the state for a possible regional commuter rail line in the past.





The type of redevelopment and "new-suburbanism" development found in outer-suburban and exurban towns like Woodstock is beneficial to the Atlanta region in multiple ways....It is beneficial because:

> It promotes less automobile-dependent walkable lifestyles in overwhelmingly automobile-dependent parts of the region in the outer-suburbs and exurbs over the long-term...

> It promotes and makes more appealing higher-density development styles in parts of the suburbs and exurbs where it is wanted...

> The rising popularity of higher-density development styles in historic suburban and exurban downtowns sets the stage for regional high-capacity transit to be extended out to outlying areas where it will be desperately needed for movement to and from the urban core in the 21st Century as constrained radial roadways (like I-75, I-575, US 41, etc) descend further into gridlock as the Atlanta region's population continues to explode...

> Revitalizes declining historic downtowns into vibrant town centers with a growing sense of community identity...

> Makes these historic downtowns places that both the local community and the Atlanta region as a whole can be proud of.

As usual B2R I can't rep you, but you really nailed it this time!

[Tryska]

I repped B2R for you, JMAtl. The bullet points at the bottom brought it home.