The importance of urbanized suburbs (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: closing, subdivision, living in)

[stateofnature]

Originally Posted by MississippianInMemphis

You do realize that more than twice the amount of millennials live in the suburbs, many by choice. Trendy people have always lived in cities going back to the suburban boom in the 40s and 50s and 60s. There were always neighborhoods like Greenwich Village, Haight Ashbury, West LA, South Beach etc. inhabited by alternative young people without children. Then, they have kids and move to a subdivision and get replaced by others who want an urban "alt" life.


The burbs aren't going anywhere, the trend is over exaggerated by bitter urbanistas who hate the suburbs because they are going through a rebellious phase and trying to be different from the parents they resent.

If anything, ghetto people from the city are moving into the inner burbs and ruining them causing nicer places to spring up further out.

The American dream for the majority is still a home with a yard in the suburbs. This site is skewed because the demographic on here is liberal young people/hipsters and wannabe urban planners. They do not represent the majority of America or even the majority of millennials.

More and more Americans aren't having kids. I don't plan on having kids anytime soon if ever so there is little reason for me to contemplate moving into a boring subdivision. A yard does nothing for me other than create chores. I guess I've been stuck in a "rebellious phase" for a long time because I am in my 30s, I still like living in a city as much as ever and am utterly bored by the suburbs. And I get along great with my parents! Do you think I am just a rare exception or could it be that you are making a lazy stereotype about why some people like living in cities? I know I am not alone because I know people like me so I am thinking it's the latter.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by Tryska

Yes! I would put Smyrna in the Inner Ring category - but I am on the fence. Sandy Springs is more inner ring to me now, because you can still use the Train to get there.

But I guess - to get deeper into that conversation - would places like Smyrna and Sandy Springs actually be considered Edge Cities as opposed to suburbs of Atlanta, since they have their own healthy commercial centers?

This is a very silly exercise in semantics. Who cares what we call these places?

[Tryska]

Ran across this while searching for succinct definition of Inner Suburb.

it's from 2011 and a bit doom and gloomish. Thoughts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/op...ge-suburb.html

[Tryska]

Originally Posted by evannole

This is a very silly exercise in semantics. Who cares what we call these places?

I care. These are place typologies. Might not matter to you - but to me it's like saying:

"Who cares whether you call it an apple or a tomato - it's a fruit!"

[evannole]

Originally Posted by Tryska

I care. These are place typologies. Might not matter to you - but to me it's like saying:

"Who cares whether you call it an apple or a tomato - it's a fruit!"

But the trouble is, you can't pigeonhole everything, especially when it comes to development. Take, for instance, the Northlake Mall area. By your definition, this would probably be classified as an inner suburb, yet it has no discernable historical center, no walkable concentration of amenities, no grid and no true, direct access to transit. It's the textbook definition of sprawl. Yet it's ITP, in one of the two counties that approved MARTA all those years ago, and so somehow it gets a pass, like most ITP areas.

Central Smyrna is a lot more walkable, and has been revived with a new (albeit somewhat manufactured) town center that has new, and renovated, quality housing clustered around a center that houses government, civic, recreational and commercial functions. No, it's not on transit; like 90% or more of ITP, it lacks easy access to truly functional transit. It's too bad, yes, but is no different from most of the region, including most of the CoA, in that respect, and is otherwise much more smartly planned than most of it, too.

Meanwhile, just up the road, downtown Marietta is a real city - older than most of Atlanta's streetcar suburbs, with a central urban core, classic old housing stock mixed with new, a compact, walkable street grid, and a myriad of civic functions, parks, restaurants, shops and government buildings all located within a compact, well-laid out area. Marietta, too, lacks rail transit, but at least the transit hub for CCT, which admittedly is not a great system, is located pretty close to the city center and does provide some connectivity. Is it car-dependent? For many people, during the week, yes, like the vast bulk of ITP. On weekends, many of us who live close to the Square are often fortunate enough - and quite happy - to leave our cars untouched in the garage.

Trying to classify these neatly into a little box, in my estimation, is both difficult and rather pointless. Much better to focus on the plusses and minuses of each without bothering to try to put them in a box.

[demonta4]

One thing I love about the inner suburbs is that, you can have a decent house and yard and still be within walking distance from shopping, work, and schools. I do wish that the newly created "dense" suburbs will have a sense of place though. When I visit places like Sandy Springs I don't really feel a sense of place. The streets always seem to be empty, and the architecture looks so boring. They also tend to lack community events like Atlanta, Decatur, Marietta, and the inner southern suburbs ( East Point, College Park, Forest Park) have.

[steveklein]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

You can't pack 6 million people ITP. The area has grown so it would sprawl into these areas anyway. The congested mess of cities pre WWII led to the desire for space, the advent of the automobile made the developmental pattern work. There is a correction back, but building more dense pockets throughout a major metro area is the real solution, not continuing to blast suburban growth and believe that the core city is the only viable option like most of your posts purport.

It's time you take a nice road trip. You can go through miles upon miles in south Georgia where there is more than enough land for forests and farms than you can shake a stick at. Drive out here to Texas and it is even more so. That growth is booming in a handful of metro areas and land is taken for that growth is but a drop in the bucket for the huge rural areas in our country where growth is negative and tons of land is sitting idle. That is more alarming than a Gwinnett or Cobb farm turning into a subdivision IMHO.

Sure you can. San Francisco is about 6x as dense as Atlanta; New York about 8x. There is a TON of underutilized land ITP. I think you will see the population ITP continue to grow over the next few decades. Probably not to 6 million, but I could see adding another million people through infill development.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by steveklein

Sure you can. San Francisco is about 6x as dense as Atlanta; New York about 8x. There is a TON of underutilized land ITP. I think you will see the population ITP continue to grow over the next few decades. Probably not to 6 million, but I could see adding another million people through infill development.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by stateofnature

More and more Americans aren't having kids. I don't plan on having kids anytime soon if ever so there is little reason for me to contemplate moving into a boring subdivision. A yard does nothing for me other than create chores. I guess I've been stuck in a "rebellious phase" for a long time because I am in my 30s, I still like living in a city as much as ever and am utterly bored by the suburbs. And I get along great with my parents! Do you think I am just a rare exception or could it be that you are making a lazy stereotype about why some people like living in cities? I know I am not alone because I know people like me so I am thinking it's the latter.

The only problem I have with your comment is that you paint all suburbs with such a broad brush. They aren't nearly all boring and they aren't nearly all the same. Most suburbs have an urban center of some sort, and some are pretty large and offer almost anything you find in the main central city. Your opinion is obviously valid, but it's definitely incorrect to assume all suburbs are alike.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by evannole

But the trouble is, you can't pigeonhole everything, especially when it comes to development. Take, for instance, the Northlake Mall area. By your definition, this would probably be classified as an inner suburb, yet it has no discernable historical center, no walkable concentration of amenities, no grid and no true, direct access to transit. It's the textbook definition of sprawl. Yet it's ITP, in one of the two counties that approved MARTA all those years ago, and so somehow it gets a pass, like most ITP areas.

Central Smyrna is a lot more walkable, and has been revived with a new (albeit somewhat manufactured) town center that has new, and renovated, quality housing clustered around a center that houses government, civic, recreational and commercial functions. No, it's not on transit; like 90% or more of ITP, it lacks easy access to truly functional transit. It's too bad, yes, but is no different from most of the region, including most of the CoA, in that respect, and is otherwise much more smartly planned than most of it, too.

Meanwhile, just up the road, downtown Marietta is a real city - older than most of Atlanta's streetcar suburbs, with a central urban core, classic old housing stock mixed with new, a compact, walkable street grid, and a myriad of civic functions, parks, restaurants, shops and government buildings all located within a compact, well-laid out area. Marietta, too, lacks rail transit, but at least the transit hub for CCT, which admittedly is not a great system, is located pretty close to the city center and does provide some connectivity. Is it car-dependent? For many people, during the week, yes, like the vast bulk of ITP. On weekends, many of us who live close to the Square are often fortunate enough - and quite happy - to leave our cars untouched in the garage.

Trying to classify these neatly into a little box, in my estimation, is both difficult and rather pointless. Much better to focus on the plusses and minuses of each without bothering to try to put them in a box.

Totally agree.