Cobb Pkwy BRT line included in Cobb County's Comprehensive Plan (Atlanta: 2015, centers)

[AfternoonCoffee]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

This BRT proposal is a well-intended (if not highly flawed) start to attempting to improve transit service in heavily-populated and heavily-developed Cobb County.

Though, the inadequate funding and operating models for this proposed line leave much to be desired.

The use of a voter referendum to fund this proposed line leaves it extremely vulnerable to being rejected by angry Cobb County voters eager to send a message to express their displeasure over the escalating costs of the Braves stadium project.

While the decision to only operate the first phase of the line between Cumberland and KSU instead of between Arts Center and KSU is highly questionable from a connectivity standpoint....But such is the debacle that is public transportation throughout much of metro Atlanta these days.

I don't give this proposal much of a chance of being passed by the voters (and I am not necessarily really sure that it should pass at this point), but at least this proposal keeps the conversation about transit improvement going.

IMO, for many of the reasons B2R listed above, this project was designed to fail. If this is basically a glorified bus, and the voters aren't sold on the benefits (if there are any) it will not pass, and anti-transit folks can use that as "exhibit A" for why "Cobb voters don't want transit" for several years to come. Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same thing. They will both be wrong, of course.

On the other hand, if it passes, it will be a glorified bus stuck in traffic, and voters will wonder why they voted for it in the first place, and will therefore be even more wary of new transit plans for at least a few years. Anti-transit folks will then say "look how this failed! See, Cobb and transit don't mix?!" Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same: accusing "Cobb" of being unwilling to adopt mass-transit. Both parties would be wrong, of course.

I'm Cobb resident, I think we need transit. I am willing to defend "Cobb" from some of the ignorant claims made against it (as if a heavily populated area of nearly a million people is a monolith anyway Anyone who consistently paints Cobb with a broad brush, clearly doesn't know much about Cobb)

However, it is absolutely true that there is an "old guard" that fits the stereotype that the anti-Cobb folks push. Unfortunately many of those are in leadership positions. But their numbers are shrinking. Like most of the metro, Cobb has been going through rapid changes. Anti-Cobbers shouldn't write us all off. Give us some time, bother finding out what the issues are, or get involved in making changes.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

IMO, for many of the reasons B2R listed above, this project was designed to fail. If this is basically a glorified bus, and the voters aren't sold on the benefits (if there are any) it will not pass, and anti-transit folks can use that as "exhibit A" for why "Cobb voters don't want transit" for several years to come. Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same thing. They will both be wrong, of course.

On the other hand, if it passes, it will be a glorified bus stuck in traffic, and voters will wonder why they voted for it in the first place, and will therefore be even more wary of new transit plans for at least a few years. Anti-transit folks will then say "look how this failed! See, Cobb and transit don't mix?!" Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same: accusing "Cobb" of being unwilling to adopt mass-transit. Both parties would be wrong, of course.

I'm Cobb resident, I think we need transit. I am willing to defend "Cobb" from some of the ignorant claims made against it (as if a heavily populated area of nearly a million people is a monolith anyway Anyone who consistently paints Cobb with a broad brush, clearly doesn't know much about Cobb)

However, it is absolutely true that there is an "old guard" that fits the stereotype that the anti-Cobb folks push. Unfortunately many of those are in leadership positions. But their numbers are shrinking. Like most of the metro, Cobb has been going through rapid changes. Anti-Cobbers shouldn't write us all off. Give us some time, bother finding out what the issues are, or get involved in making changes.

Yes, this, precisely. And I am right there with you. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And then seek to change things. The area is changing, and so is the constituency.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

IMO, for many of the reasons B2R listed above, this project was designed to fail. If this is basically a glorified bus, and the voters aren't sold on the benefits (if there are any) it will not pass, and anti-transit folks can use that as "exhibit A" for why "Cobb voters don't want transit" for several years to come. Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same thing. They will both be wrong, of course.

On the other hand, if it passes, it will be a glorified bus stuck in traffic, and voters will wonder why they voted for it in the first place, and will therefore be even more wary of new transit plans for at least a few years. Anti-transit folks will then say "look how this failed! See, Cobb and transit don't mix?!" Coincidentally, anti-Cobb folks will say the same: accusing "Cobb" of being unwilling to adopt mass-transit. Both parties would be wrong, of course.

I'm Cobb resident, I think we need transit. I am willing to defend "Cobb" from some of the ignorant claims made against it (as if a heavily populated area of nearly a million people is a monolith anyway Anyone who consistently paints Cobb with a broad brush, clearly doesn't know much about Cobb)

However, it is absolutely true that there is an "old guard" that fits the stereotype that the anti-Cobb folks push. Unfortunately many of those are in leadership positions. But their numbers are shrinking. Like most of the metro, Cobb has been going through rapid changes. Anti-Cobbers shouldn't write us all off. Give us some time, bother finding out what the issues are, or get involved in making changes.

If the buses have their own lane, high frequencies, off board payment, and stations; then it would be more than just a bus stuck in traffic because it will have it's own dedicated lane.

[AfternoonCoffee]

Originally Posted by evannole

Yes, this, precisely. And I am right there with you. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And then seek to change things. The area is changing, and so is the constituency.

Yes, the rest of the metro area has changed dramatically since the 90's, but it's as if some people just refuse to accept that Cobb has changed, too

And thanks for your Marietta Square restaurant suggestions on that other thread!

[AfternoonCoffee]

Originally Posted by cqholt

If the buses have their own lane, high frequencies, off board payment, and stations; then it would be more than just a bus stuck in traffic because it will have it's own dedicated lane.

Right, but the big question is if, in practice, it's going to happen this way...

[evannole]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

Yes, the rest of the metro area has changed dramatically since the 90's, but it's as if some people just refuse to accept that Cobb has changed, too

And thanks for your Marietta Square restaurant suggestions on that other thread!

Anytime! We are always trying new ones, and some are better than others. I'm hoping that we'll continue to get more interesting options.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

Right, but the big question is if, in practice, it's going to happen this way...

Then it wouldn't be considered BRT, just a local or limited stop bus.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Then it wouldn't be considered BRT, just a local or limited stop bus.

Originally Posted by AfternoonCoffee

Right, but the big question is if, in practice, it's going to happen this way...

Sadly, you're both kinda right. It will have dedicated, but not separated lanes. That means that there will be paint on the road that says to stay out and that they're only for buses. No median keeping the lanes from interfering with each other though, much like the bus lanes along 17th around Atlantic Station.

I fear that what happens around Atlantic Station, and with Toronto and their Streetcar Lanes, will happen here though. That is, that people ignore, or don't notice the paint, using the lane as a standard travel lane. Atlantic Station never seemed to enforce their bus lanes too heavily, and Toronto got tired of writing so many tickets (hahahaha) and gave up the effort of heavily inforcing.

Along I-75, the buses will use HOV lanes, like the eXpress buses, which run into the same issue of local traffic during rush hour. I have a feeling that the lack of guaranteed travel lanes from Cumberland down to Arts Center is one of the big reasons for the phasing...

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Sadly, you're both kinda right. It will have dedicated, but not separated lanes. That means that there will be paint on the road that says to stay out and that they're only for buses. No median keeping the lanes from interfering with each other though, much like the bus lanes along 17th around Atlantic Station.

I fear that what happens around Atlantic Station, and with Toronto and their Streetcar Lanes, will happen here though. That is, that people ignore, or don't notice the paint, using the lane as a standard travel lane. Atlantic Station never seemed to enforce their bus lanes too heavily, and Toronto got tired of writing so many tickets (hahahaha) and gave up the effort of heavily inforcing.

Along I-75, the buses will use HOV lanes, like the eXpress buses, which run into the same issue of local traffic during rush hour. I have a feeling that the lack of guaranteed travel lanes from Cumberland down to Arts Center is one of the big reasons for the phasing...

Guess Cobb PD better enforce the bus only lanes or it'll be a failure. They could put up flex post, as a cheap alterative?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Guess Cobb PD better enforce the bus only lanes or it'll be a failure. They could put up flex post, as a cheap alterative?

I kinda like that idea actually, like they did with the Bike Track along 10th. Enough of a presence to give the drivers the idea to stay out, while not causing to much damage should someone have an accident and go over.