Atlanta should move up to 8th by the 2020 census (Dallas: moving, estimated)

[skbl17]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

The stretch I'm talking about is way down in south GA. I didn't even consider that part I-75 because anyone heading to Florida would take just I-475 anyway.

No, all of I-75 (outside of the Macon stretch) is six lanes or more as of 2013. A few years back, GDOT decided to widen I-75 to six lanes on the former four-lane Vienna to Valdosta stretch. Here's a news article from 2004, when the project began.

Here are some Street View shots of the recently widened stretches (from south to north):

- The Valdosta-to-Adel stretch (widened in the mid 2000s)
- The Adel-to-Tifton stretch (widened in the late 2000s)
- The Tifton-to-Vienna stretch (widened in the late 2000s)

North of Vienna (and with the exception of the aforementioned north Macon stretch), I-75 has been at least six lanes each way for at least a couple of decades. That said, in Dooly County, the left lane has been closed since 2012 for construction (compare 2011 to 2013). They've probably finished whatever construction was going on down there, though.

- skbl17

[AtlantaIsHot]

Originally Posted by JMatl

Whatever, they're estimates. We wont know if they are accurate for several years, and the Census has a history of not being so of late. The middle class has pretty much left, as they have been doing for decades. They are being replaced by poor immigrants, and part-time wealthy condo investors. There is a reason our GDP is higher, even though they have more people. It's a recipe for disaster down there, as we have seen time after time.

Maybe you should help replenish the numbers. They need help replacing all that have fled to Broward, Palm Beach and here. Just make sure your job is portable.

JMatl makes some good points about the fact that these aren't set-in-stone numbers just yet. They are merely estimates, but they are within the ballpark. There is NO QUESTION about which metros are growing fast and which are not. The census bureau has several tools to measure growth with. Births, deaths, net international migration, net domestic migration, moving destination info, job growth numbers, housing construction, and building permits issued. These give a CLEAR view on where growth is occurring. There is some wiggle room, but not much. If you go to Buffalo or Cleveland or Detroit, you will not find very much new housing construction. There is no need to construct new housing when there are no new people to fill them. This has been the case for decades. Each one has negative domestic migration. They have positive birth rates, but if they move away later, it doesn't do them much good. They have relatively low international migration. Relatively few people rent a Uhaul to move to Buffalo or Cleveland or Detroit. All of these measurable things are off the charts for Dallas or Phoenix et al. These things create a clear impression for measuring growth. We do know who is growing and who is not.

The recession and the foreclosure crisis hurt metro Atlanta badly but it's foreclosed houses have been resold for the most part, it's housing prices are climbing, it's job growth is surging, and new construction is sprouting like new green shoots. It took long enough, that's for sure.

[JoeP]

Deal with it, and drop the attitude.

That's exactly my point. Drop the attitude indeed.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by JoeP

That's exactly my point. Drop the attitude indeed.

And you don't dictate anything here, so stop telling people to 'move on' if you disagree with them.

[Trafalgar Law]

Bright future ahead for Greater Atlanta. What we know is that it is moving on up in the world, from 9th to 8th (by displacing the tumbling Philadelphia) and by my personal estimation that will be by 2020 (2021 or 2022 at the latest).

I know this is the Atlanta forum and most of you probably don't care at all about this but Boston, San Francisco-Oakland, and Phoenix will all have about the EXACT same population in 2020 as well. All three over 4.9 million but below 5.0 million (so well within 100,000 of each other) and it is widely expected that Phoenix will take the 10th spot from Boston by 2021 or 2022.

Here are MSA's by decade (and 2014) using the same land area that they have today from 1900 to 2014.

1900:
01. New York: 5,417,000
02. Chicago: 2,256,000
03. Philadelphia: 2,052,000
04. Boston: 1,890,000
05. Pittsburgh: 1,304,000
06. Saint Louis: 1,001,000
07. Cincinnati: 760,000
08. Baltimore: 737,000
09. Providence: 681,000
10. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 650,000
11. Washington DC: 593,000
12. Cleveland: 552,000
13. Kansas City: 545,000
14. Atlanta: 534,000
15. Detroit: 529,000
16. San Francisco-Oakland: 519,000
17. Buffalo: 509,000
18. Indianapolis: 463,000
19. Dallas-Fort Worth: 452,000
20. Columbus: 416,000
21. Louisville: 408,000
22. Milwaukee: 405,000
23. Nashville: 399,000
24. New Orleans: 375,000
25. Memphis: 327,000

1910:
01. New York: 7,452,000
02. Chicago: 2,931,000
03. Philadelphia: 2,442,000
04. Boston: 2,261,000
05. Pittsburgh: 1,780,000
06. Saint Louis: 1,214,000
07. Providence: 861,000
08. Cincinnati: 819,000
09. Baltimore: 815,000
10. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 808,000
11. Cleveland: 775,000
12. Detroit: 710,000
13 San Francisco-Oakland: 746,000
14. Washington DC: 658,000
15. Atlanta: 646,000
16. Kansas City: 643,000
17. Buffalo: 621,000
18. Dallas-Fort Worth: 571,000
19. Los Angeles: 539,000
20. Indianapolis: 517,000
21. Milwaukee: 511,000
22. Columbus: 487,000
23. New Orleans: 443,000
24. Louisville: 432,000
25. Nashville: 421,000

1920:
01. New York: 8,905,000
02. Chicago: 3,711,000
03. Philadelphia: 2,923,000
04. Boston: 2,563,000
05. Pittsburgh: 2,101,000
06. Detroit: 1,407,000
07. Saint Louis: 1,349,000
08. Cleveland: 1,104,000
09. Los Angeles: 998,000
10. San Francisco-Oakland: 969,000
11. Providence: 963,000
12. Baltimore: 947,000
13. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 921,000
14. Cincinnati: 869,000
15. Washington DC: 786,000
16. Buffalo: 753,000
17. Atlanta: 748,000
18. Kansas City: 739,000
19. Dallas-Fort Worth: 701,000
20. Milwaukee: 624,000
21. Seattle: 601,000
22. Indianapolis: 596,000
23. Columbus: 548,000
24. Rochester: 536,000
25. New Orleans: 486,000

1930:
01. New York: 11,359,000
02. Chicago: 4,882,000
03. Philadelphia: 3,361,000
04. Boston: 2,867,000
05. Pittsburgh: 2,382,000
06. Los Angeles: 2,327,000
07. Detroit: 2,293,000
08. Saint Louis: 1,557,000
09. Cleveland: 1,397,000
10. San Francisco-Oakland: 1,307,000
11. Baltimore: 1,083,000
12. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 1,070,000
13. Providence: 1,052,000
14. Cincinnati: 1,023,000
15. Buffalo: 912,000
16. Washington DC: 884,000
17. Kansas City: 875,000
18. Dallas-Fort Worth: 835,000
19. Milwaukee: 822,000
20. Atlanta: 815,000
21. Seattle: 706,000
22. Indianapolis: 681,000
23. Columbus: 624,000
24. Birmingham: 616,000
25. Rochester: 611,000

1940:
01. New York: 12,211,000
02. Chicago: 5,043,000
03. Philadelphia: 3,448,000
04. Boston: 2,927,000
05. Los Angeles: 2,916,000
06. Detroit: 2,507,000
07. Pittsburgh: 2,452,000
08. Saint Louis: 1,638,000
09. Cleveland: 1,432,000
10. San Francisco-Oakland: 1,413,000
11. Washington DC: 1,198,000
12. Baltimore: 1,189,000
13. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 1,162,000
14. Providence: 1,078,000
15. Cincinnati: 1,071,000
16. Buffalo: 958,000
17. Dallas-Fort Worth: 927,000
18. Atlanta: 921,000
19. Kansas City: 883,000
20. Milwaukee: 877,000
21. Seattle: 776,000
22. Houston: 753,000
23. Indianapolis: 729,000
24. Columbus: 664,000
25. Birmingham: 658,000

1950:
01. New York: 13,589,000
02. Chicago: 5,761,000
03. Los Angeles: 4,368,000
04. Philadelphia: 3,973,000
05. Boston: 3,187,000
06. Detroit: 3,170,000
07. Pittsburgh: 2,581,000
08. San Francisco-Oakland: 2,136,000
09. Saint Louis: 1,893,000
10. Washington DC: 1,721,000
11. Cleveland: 1,681,000
12. Baltimore: 1,472,000
13. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 1,346,000
14. Dallas-Fort Worth: 1,262,000
15. Cincinnati: 1,235,000
16. Providence: 1,173,000
17. Seattle: 1,120,000
18. Atlanta: 1,091,000
19. Buffalo: 1,089,000
20. Houston: 1,083,000
21. Milwaukee: 1,014,000
22. Kansas City: 1,001,000
23. Indianapolis: 860,000
24. Columbus: 794,000
25. New Orleans: 770,000

1960:
01. New York: 15,706,000
02. Chicago: 7,017,000
03. Los Angeles: 6,743,000
04. Philadelphia: 4,757,000
05. Detroit: 3,950,000
06. Boston: 3,516,000
07. Pittsburgh: 2,769,000
08. San Francisco-Oakland: 2,649,000
09. Washington DC: 2,327,000
10. Saint Louis: 2,248,000
11. Cleveland: 2,127,000
12. Baltimore: 1,820,000
13. Dallas-Fort Worth: 1,780,000
14. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 1,697,000
15. Houston: 1,595,000
16. Cincinnati: 1,534,000
17. Miami: 1,497,000
18. Seattle: 1,429,000
19. Atlanta: 1,398,000
20. Buffalo: 1,307,000
21. Milwaukee: 1,279,000
22. Providence: 1,258,000
23. Kansas City: 1,247,000
24. Indianapolis: 1,102,000
25. San Diego: 1,033,000

1970:
01. New York: 17,506,000
02. Los Angeles: 8,452,000
03. Chicago: 7,887,000
04. Philadelphia: 5,317,000
05. Detroit: 4,431,000
06. Boston: 3,918,000
07. Washington DC: 3,164,000
08. San Francisco-Oakland: 3,110,000
09. Pittsburgh: 2,759,000
10. Saint Louis: 2,521,000
11. Dallas-Fort Worth: 2,429,000
12. Cleveland: 2,321,000
13. Miami: 2,237,000
14. Houston: 2,195,000
15. Baltimore: 2,089,000
16. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 2,080,000
17. Atlanta: 1,852,000
18. Seattle: 1,833,000
19. Cincinnati: 1,680,000
20. Kansas City: 1,415,000
22. Milwaukee: 1,404,000
23. Providence: 1,391,000
24. San Diego: 1,358,000
25. Buffalo: 1,349,000

1980:
01. New York: 16,868,000
02. Los Angeles: 9,410,000
03. Chicago: 8,053,000
04. Philadelphia: 5,240,000
05. Detroit: 4,353,000
06. Boston: 3,939,000
07. Washington DC: 3,427,000
08. San Francisco-Oakland: 3,251,000
09. Miami: 3,221,000
10. Houston: 3,138,000
11. Dallas-Fort Worth: 3,034,000
12. Pittsburgh: 2,649,000
13. Saint Louis: 2,486,000
14. Atlanta: 2,338,000
15. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 2,256,000
16. Baltimore: 2,200,000
17. Cleveland: 2,174,000
18. Seattle: 2,093,000
19. San Diego: 1,862,000
20. Cincinnati: 1,741,000
21. Tampa: 1,614,000
22. Phoenix: 1,600,000
23. Riverside-San Bernardino: 1,558,000
24. Kansas City: 1,482,000
25. Denver: 1,451,000

1990:
01. New York: 17,413,000
02. Los Angeles: 11,274,000
03. Chicago: 8,182,000
04. Philadelphia: 5,435,000
05. Detroit: 4,249,000
06. Washington DC: 4,157,000
07. Boston: 4,134,000
08. Miami: 4,056,000
09. Dallas-Fort Worth: 4,018,778
10. Houston: 3,751,000
11. San Francisco-Oakland: 3,687,000
12. Atlanta: 3,082,000
13. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 2,595,000
14. Riverside-San Bernardino: 2,589,000
15. Seattle: 2,559,000
16. Saint Louis: 2,561,000
17. San Diego: 2,498,000
18. Pittsburgh: 2,468,000
19. Baltimore: 2,382,000
20. Phoenix: 2,238,000
21. Cleveland: 2,102,000
22. Tampa: 2,068,000
23. Cincinnati: 1,832,000
24. Denver: 1,650,000
25. Kansas City: 1,615,000

2000:
01. New York: 18,945,000
02. Los Angeles: 12,366,000
03. Chicago: 9,098,000
04. Philadelphia: 5,687,000
05. Dallas-Fort Worth: 5,204,000
06. Miami: 5,008,000
07. Washington DC: 4,837,000
08. Houston: 4,693,000
09. Detroit: 4,453,000
10. Boston: 4,391,000
11. Atlanta: 4,263,000
12. San Francisco-Oakland: 4,124,000
13. Riverside-San Bernardino: 3,255,000
14. Phoenix: 3,252,000
15. Seattle: 3,044,000
16. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 3,032,000
17. San Diego: 2,814,000
18. Saint Louis: 2,675,000
19. Baltimore: 2,553,000
20. Pittsburgh: 2,431,000
21. Tampa: 2,396,000
22. Denver: 2,158,000
23. Cleveland: 2,148,000
24. Cincinnati: 1,995,000
25. Portland: 1,928,000

2010:
01. New York: 19,567,000
02. Los Angeles: 12,829,000
03. Chicago: 9,461,000
04. Dallas-Fort Worth: 6,426,000
05. Philadelphia: 5,965,000
06. Houston: 5,920,000
07. Washington DC: 5,636,000
08. Miami: 5,565,000
09. Atlanta: 5,287,000
10. Boston: 4,552,000
11. San Francisco-Oakland: 4,335,000
12. Detroit: 4,296,000
13. Riverside-San Bernardino: 4,225,000
14. Phoenix: 4,193,000
15. Seattle: 3,440,000
16. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 3,349,000
17. San Diego: 3,095,000
18. Saint Louis: 2,788,000
19. Tampa: 2,783,000
20. Baltimore: 2,710,000
21. Denver: 2,543,000
22. Pittsburgh: 2,356,000
23. Charlotte: 2,217,000
24. Portland: 2,226,000
25. San Antonio: 2,143,000

2014:
01. New York: 20,092,883
02. Los Angeles: 13,262,220
03. Chicago: 9,554,598
04. Dallas-Fort Worth: 6,954,330
05. Houston: 6,490,180
06. Philadelphia: 6,051,170
07. Washington D.C.: 6,033,737
08. Miami: 5,929,819
09. Atlanta: 5,614,323
10. Boston: 4,732,161
11. San Francisco–Oakland: 4,594,060
12. Phoenix: 4,489,109
13. Riverside-San Bernardino: 4,441,890
14. Detroit: 4,296,611
15. Seattle: 3,671,478
16. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 3,495,176
17. San Diego: 3,263,431
18. Tampa: 2,915,582
19. Saint Louis: 2,806,207
20. Baltimore: 2,785,874
21. Denver: 2,754,258
22. Charlotte: 2,380,314
23. Pittsburgh: 2,355,968
24. Portland: 2,348,247
25. San Antonio: 2,328,652

[JoeP]

And you don't dictate anything here, so stop telling people to 'move on' if you disagree with them

and I did not dictate a thing. It's common sense. You don't like the subject matter of the thread, then move on.

[AtlantaIsHot]

Red John loves number crunching and data just as much as *I* do-LOL!

Bravo, sir... Bravo...

[Trafalgar Law]

Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot

Red John loves number crunching and data just as much as *I* do-LOL!

Bravo, sir... Bravo...

Haha thanks, I seriously appreciate it.

When you combine multiple different things that interest you like say data and cities, you get a bonanza set of information to explore.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by Red John

Haha thanks, I seriously appreciate it.

When you combine multiple different things that interest you like say data and cities, you get a bonanza set of information to explore.

Thanks for those MSA stats! I've been longing for historical MSA stats like that. Easy to find city population history, not so much the metro areas. I've always wondered what the past metro population is comparable to. For example, Atlanta was the size of Birmingham (today) somewhere between 1950 and 1960. Hard for me to imagine Atlanta as a smaller metro area

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Red John

Bright future ahead for Greater Atlanta. What we know is that it is moving on up in the world, from 9th to 8th (by displacing the tumbling Philadelphia) and by my personal estimation that will be by 2020 (2021 or 2022 at the latest).

I know this is the Atlanta forum and most of you probably don't care at all about this but Boston, San Francisco-Oakland, and Phoenix will all have about the EXACT same population in 2020 as well. All three over 4.9 million but below 5.0 million (so well within 100,000 of each other) and it is widely expected that Phoenix will take the 10th spot from Boston by 2021 or 2022.

Here are MSA's by decade (and 2014) using the same land area that they have today from 1900 to 2014.

Did you add up the current MSA counties for each of these decades? If so, that was a painstaking job! I applaud you. Sounds like something I would do but then get bored and quit after two decades worth. Did you do the same for each metro? Take the current counties that comprise each metro today and add them up?

You won't see these figures on historical lists because counties were added in different measures each census. I do believe the metro area was just the core five as late as the 1960 census (Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinett, Clayton).