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Old 06-17-2015, 07:51 AM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
They need to convert the entire highway to being congestion toll based.
Actuallly I thought this was why GDOT was not doing anymore conversions. People complaining about paying for it twice-once to build it and then after it was once free, as a toll road. Not because it didn't make a lot of sense.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Actuallly I thought this was why GDOT was not doing anymore conversions. People complaining about paying for it twice-once to build it and then after it was once free, as a toll road. Not because it didn't make a lot of sense.
If you want highways you have to keep paying for them. There is not enough money to pay for the existing maintenance of highways. Couple that with that cars are getting more fuel efficient and switching to alternative fuels and tolling is really the only practical funding option for highways.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,576 posts, read 10,714,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Actuallly I thought this was why GDOT was not doing anymore conversions. People complaining about paying for it twice-once to build it and then after it was once free, as a toll road. Not because it didn't make a lot of sense.

bu2 and Gulch,

You guys should check out the state's managed lane plan. http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Stu...INALREPORT.pdf

Two main points I think people continually miss:

1) There will be more conversions, especially intown

2) They are not done with I-85 N. That was just a starter project.



I disagree they should congestion toll the whole highway. I think the system is most effective when the tolled and non-tolled parts are side-by side (granted I prefer slip lanes be used) and people can fluidly choose between the two on a day-to-day basis in an effort to keep capacity high.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:55 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12710
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
bu2 and Gulch,

You guys should check out the state's managed lane plan. http://www.dot.ga.gov/BuildSmart/Stu...INALREPORT.pdf

Two main points I think people continually miss:

1) There will be more conversions, especially intown

2) They are not done with I-85 N. That was just a starter project.



I disagree they should congestion toll the whole highway. I think the system is most effective when the tolled and non-tolled parts are side-by side (granted I prefer slip lanes be used) and people can fluidly choose between the two on a day-to-day basis in an effort to keep capacity high.
This is 2010 before the outcry. Not saying they won't, but there will be a lot of discussion before simply converting an existing HOV.
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,576 posts, read 10,714,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
This is 2010 before the outcry. Not saying they won't, but there will be a lot of discussion before simply converting an existing HOV.
Nothing has been said to the contrary and so far every step the GDOT has taken is moving along as planned.

As for the HOV lanes they will have to convert eventually. They are incompatible use the expansion of HOT, plus they get congested beyond the original federal requirements that helped pay for them.
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:29 PM
 
Location: N.C. for now... Atlanta future
1,243 posts, read 1,372,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
There was a Texas official who made the comment that the road system wasn't scalable. You can't endlessly build roads, but you can't NOT build and just hope everyone rides rail. The only rail ridden will be the jobs riding the rail out of town.
I don't think roads should NEVER be built or upgraded. My earlier post stated that I support improvements to the existing road networks, but I only support technologically advanced expansions-nontolled reversible lanes, tolled HOV lanes, truck lane separation, turbine interchanges, DDI's, express lane seperations, longer exits and entrances for examples. I've never lived in lalaland where everyone rides a rail to work but I also DO NOT support miles of 20 lane highway that can't be maintained forever either. America has been unbalanced in building infrastructure for about 45 years now. Roads, roads, and more roads is all we've done. There has been no substantial investment in mass transit for decades until a slight uptick recently. We can't build endless miles of massive highways forever. We must also build safe, reliable train transit. Commuter rails are like riding luxury rail in some cities. Comfortable seats with large windows in air conditioned and heated cars with on board train personnel would go a long way toward making it appealing to professionals. It usually takes seeing people in suits to get the others out of their cars as well.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:43 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12710
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Nothing has been said to the contrary and so far every step the GDOT has taken is moving along as planned.

As for the HOV lanes they will have to convert eventually. They are incompatible use the expansion of HOT, plus they get congested beyond the original federal requirements that helped pay for them.
They will have lots of splainin' to do if they don't expand capacity when they do that conversion. On the Connector, they are expanding capacity per that document. They aren't on some of the other segments.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:44 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12710
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaIsHot View Post
I don't think roads should NEVER be built or upgraded. My earlier post stated that I support improvements to the existing road networks, but I only support technologically advanced expansions-nontolled reversible lanes, tolled HOV lanes, truck lane separation, turbine interchanges, DDI's, express lane seperations, longer exits and entrances for examples. I've never lived in lalaland where everyone rides a rail to work but I also DO NOT support miles of 20 lane highway that can't be maintained forever either. America has been unbalanced in building infrastructure for about 45 years now. Roads, roads, and more roads is all we've done. There has been no substantial investment in mass transit for decades until a slight uptick recently. We can't build endless miles of massive highways forever. We must also build safe, reliable train transit. Commuter rails are like riding luxury rail in some cities. Comfortable seats with large windows in air conditioned and heated cars with on board train personnel would go a long way toward making it appealing to professionals. It usually takes seeing people in suits to get the others out of their cars as well.
Atlanta has hardly done either in the last couple of decades.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,576 posts, read 10,714,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
They will have lots of splainin' to do if they don't expand capacity when they do that conversion. On the Connector, they are expanding capacity per that document. They aren't on some of the other segments.
per the document they are taking over the HOV lane and one general purpose lane on the connector.

They already did the expansion recently in the past.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: N.C. for now... Atlanta future
1,243 posts, read 1,372,398 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Atlanta has hardly done either in the last couple of decades.
Widening I-75 to 17 lanes, extending Georgia 400, widening I-285, expanding the Cobb Cloverleaf, building spaghetti junction, widening I-85, widening the downtown connector, replacing virtually every interchange with more complicated ones. It has been virtually one-sided for 20 years, that's for sure. Just like the U.S.

Still seems to me that more ADVANCED roads, rather than just MORE of them, plus more transit is the only way forward.
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