MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Stone Mountain: developing, commercial)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fieldm

It looks like the Braves had a 9am game this morning in Smyrna

Over a head start for the evening game.

[fieldm]

I think the Crosstown Peachtree Line should run on West Peachtree or Spring St in Downtown/Midtown instead of on Peachtree St. Probably West Peachtree is better since it has less traffic instead of having it on Peachtree St in Downtown/Midtown

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by fieldm

I think the Crosstown Peachtree Line should run on West Peachtree or Spring St in Downtown/Midtown instead of on Peachtree St. Probably West Peachtree is better since it has less traffic instead of having it on Peachtree St in Downtown/Midtown

I agree. Both of these roads are 4 or 5 lanes. 1 lane can be dedicated streetcar, 1 lane dedicated protected cycle track, and the remaining 3 lanes can be divided into parking and travel lanes. These are 2 of the few roads in the city with plenty of space to do it right.

[fieldm]

Gwinnett commissioners look at rough rail transit cost estimates | Politics | gwinnettdailypost.com

A transit rail line connecting Doraville with the Mall of Georgia, with a spur that reaches out on Georgia Highway 316 to Lawrenceville, could cost Gwinnett County as much as $7 billion. Maybe.

“By far the answer was high capacity transit with dedicated space,” Chapman said. “One thing I heard at some of the breakout sessions, and saw, was somebody taking a magic marker and saying, ‘I’d like to see this from Doraville to the Mall of Georgia,’ or to Lawrenceville. This is intended to be an aspirations exercise where people don’t necessarily try to constrain it, but we’re getting to the point where we are going to start constraining the plan.Transit was the most common top priority at meetings held at sites in the Norcross, Duluth, Buford and Lawrenceville areas — all of which are communities located on or near the corridor Chapman talked about being a possible rail or rapid bus transit route. Attendees at meetings held in Snellville and Dacula, which each by far had the two highest attendances of all of the meetings, showed a preference toward vehicular travel.

Now that county officials are looking at costs of transportation improvements and coming up with a financially constrained list of transportation projects, Chapman said expects to have a short-range plan compiled by the end of the summer, in time to have it ready to help put together a proposed list of transportation projects for the upcoming SPLOST. The final draft of the Comprehensive Transportation Plan, which looks out 24 years, is expected to be presented to commissioners for approval next year.

[fieldm]

Gwinnett could get bus rapid transit for a fraction of MARTA

Gwinnett officials have been cool to recent calls for a public vote on MARTA. But they have touted bus rapid transit as an alternative – without actually endorsing it.



Gwinnett could get bus rapid transit for a fraction of MARTA’s cost photo

In her February “state of the county” speech, Gwinnett County Commission Chairwoman Charlotte Nash unveiled a vision for the county’s future that could include bus rapid transit, as seen in this artist rendering of future development at the Infinite Energy Center in Duluth.

In her “state of the county” speech in February, County Commission Chairwoman Charlotte Nash offered a vision of Gwinnett’s future that included artist renderings of a bus rapid transit system serving Infinite Energy Center, Gwinnett Place and Lilburn. On Tuesday commissioners got a briefing that showed Gwinnett could build a bus rapid transit system for a tenth of the price of a MARTA expansion.

He also said building a bus rapid transit system could take five to nine years, while a rail system could take substantially longer.

Some commissioners expressed skepticism about an investment in rail at a time when transportation technology – think driverless cars – is evolving rapidly.

“You’re talking 30 years to put some of this on the ground,” said Commissioner Tommy Hunter. “You have to spend $1.7 billion to find out you didn’t need it.”

But none of the commissioners endorsed bus rapid transit, either. Even Nash has not said she’d support such a system.

“I’m holding out for teleportation,” she said Tuesday.

[jsvh]

This is moving fast! Sounds like the first CoA MARTA project list is due in a week!

How should MARTA spend $2.5 billion in Atlanta? | Atlanta News & Opinion Blog | Fresh Loaf | Creative Loafing Atlanta

MARTA’s board of directors must approve a potential project list by May 11. A draft list will be presented to the Atlanta City Council on May 31. The City Council has to vote to place the measure on the ballot one month later on June 30. Councilmembers must be presented with a final project list to approve July 31.

[primaltech]

I think trying to spend the very least amount of money, for the very least of what could be considered rapid transit, is the wrong strategy, especially for a large and getting even larger county like Gwinnett.

They should figure out how much money a permanent 1% county-wide sales tax would fund, including operational budget. Then take that figure, and compare all the different methods of transit, and all the different options of what they can get for that much money, and pick the best and most appropriate option, with the best bang for buck.

Seems to me that commuter rail should favor very highly in such a comparison. Especially since with a 1% tax they should easily have the money to build large stretches of new passenger dedicated tracks next to the freight tracks.

Or, hey, they could go with an entirely BRT option. But I only see the point in doing that if they're willing to spend the money to make it great. Dedicated right of way, new infrastructure, serious BRT business. And many miles of it, with multiple different lines. Configured in a long-distance commuter sort of design. Could also definitely work well.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by fieldm

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/m...bus-rapid.html

Adding a heavy rail line that would connect Doraville with the Mall of Georgia, and include a spur that reaches out on Georgia Highway 316 to Lawrenceville, could cost as much as $7 billion, according to a Gwinnett transportation official.

Gwinnett Transportation Director Alan Chapman told county officials Tuesday that based on costs of similar projects in the region and across the country, bus rapid transit could cost about $660 million, while light rail could cost $3.36 billion and heavy rail an estimated $7.05 billion, reports Gwinnett Daily Post.

Doraville -> Mall of Georgia = 22.24 Miles

I85 & 316 -> Lawrenceville = 6.55 miles

Total = 28.79 Miles

Cost High = 28.79 Miles * $.3 Billion/Mile = ~$8.6 Billion.
Cost Mid = 28.79 Miles * $.25 Billion/Mile = ~$7.2 Billion.
Cost Low = 28.79 Miles * $.2 Billion/Mile = ~$5.8 Billion.

See, what I don't understand is why Gwinnett would push heavy rail past Gwinnett Place Mall... maybe as far out as Sugarloaf Parkway.

If they stopped the rail at Gwinnett Place, then they'd save 18.2 miles of heavy rail, and more than half the costs. That's more than enough to implement true BRT as cross-county connections, Commuter rail, AND maybe some streetcars if they felt like it.

This all just looks like someone's trying to trick the county citizens into not trying to push forward with MARTA... or quality rail service.

Originally Posted by fieldm

Gwinnett commissioners look at rough rail transit cost estimates | Politics | gwinnettdailypost.com

A transit rail line connecting Doraville with the Mall of Georgia, with a spur that reaches out on Georgia Highway 316 to Lawrenceville, could cost Gwinnett County as much as $7 billion. Maybe.

“By far the answer was high capacity transit with dedicated space,” Chapman said. “One thing I heard at some of the breakout sessions, and saw, was somebody taking a magic marker and saying, ‘I’d like to see this from Doraville to the Mall of Georgia,’ or to Lawrenceville. This is intended to be an aspirations exercise where people don’t necessarily try to constrain it, but we’re getting to the point where we are going to start constraining the plan.Transit was the most common top priority at meetings held at sites in the Norcross, Duluth, Buford and Lawrenceville areas — all of which are communities located on or near the corridor Chapman talked about being a possible rail or rapid bus transit route. Attendees at meetings held in Snellville and Dacula, which each by far had the two highest attendances of all of the meetings, showed a preference toward vehicular travel.

Now that county officials are looking at costs of transportation improvements and coming up with a financially constrained list of transportation projects, Chapman said expects to have a short-range plan compiled by the end of the summer, in time to have it ready to help put together a proposed list of transportation projects for the upcoming SPLOST. The final draft of the Comprehensive Transportation Plan, which looks out 24 years, is expected to be presented to commissioners for approval next year.

Originally Posted by fieldm

Gwinnett could get bus rapid transit for a fraction of MARTA

Gwinnett officials have been cool to recent calls for a public vote on MARTA. But they have touted bus rapid transit as an alternative – without actually endorsing it.


In her February “state of the county” speech, Gwinnett County Commission Chairwoman Charlotte Nash unveiled a vision for the county’s future that could include bus rapid transit, as seen in this artist rendering of future development at the Infinite Energy Center in Duluth.

In her “state of the county” speech in February, County Commission Chairwoman Charlotte Nash offered a vision of Gwinnett’s future that included artist renderings of a bus rapid transit system serving Infinite Energy Center, Gwinnett Place and Lilburn. On Tuesday commissioners got a briefing that showed Gwinnett could build a bus rapid transit system for a tenth of the price of a MARTA expansion.

He also said building a bus rapid transit system could take five to nine years, while a rail system could take substantially longer.

Some commissioners expressed skepticism about an investment in rail at a time when transportation technology – think driverless cars – is evolving rapidly.

“You’re talking 30 years to put some of this on the ground,” said Commissioner Tommy Hunter. “You have to spend $1.7 billion to find out you didn’t need it.”

But none of the commissioners endorsed bus rapid transit, either. Even Nash has not said she’d support such a system.

“I’m holding out for teleportation,” she said Tuesday.

What baffles my mind, is that they're making all these 'It's cheaper than MARTA!' claims without:

1) Talking to MARTA to get a list of what Gwinnett could get for its 1% sales tax

or

2) Considering that JUST MAYBE there's a reason that it costs more, and that that reason is not a bad one. The quality and capacity of extending HRT vs. trying to do it with maybe true BRT or LRT seems like it's wanting, to me.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Doraville -> Mall of Georgia = 22.24 Miles

I85 & 316 -> Lawrenceville = 6.55 miles

Total = 28.79 Miles

Cost High = 28.79 Miles * $.3 Billion/Mile = ~$8.6 Billion.
Cost Mid = 28.79 Miles * $.25 Billion/Mile = ~$7.2 Billion.
Cost Low = 28.79 Miles * $.2 Billion/Mile = ~$5.8 Billion.

See, what I don't understand is why Gwinnett would push heavy rail past Gwinnett Place Mall... maybe as far out as Sugarloaf Parkway.

If they stopped the rail at Gwinnett Place, then they'd save 18.2 miles of heavy rail, and more than half the costs. That's more than enough to implement true BRT as cross-county connections, Commuter rail, AND maybe some streetcars if they felt like it.

This all just looks like someone's trying to trick the county citizens into not trying to push forward with MARTA... or quality rail service.








What baffles my mind, is that they're making all these 'It's cheaper than MARTA!' claims without:

1) Talking to MARTA to get a list of what Gwinnett could get for its 1% sales tax

or

2) Considering that JUST MAYBE there's a reason that it costs more, and that that reason is not a bad one. The quality and capacity of extending HRT vs. trying to do it with maybe true BRT or LRT seems like it's wanting, to me.

They'll do anything to throw shade on MARTA and keep the citizens thinking that GCT or Gwinnett Co can build and run it more efficeintly than MARTA, which has been operating the only true subway in the SE for over 30 years. But really it comes down to giving up control to MARTA and intown interest.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

They'll do anything to throw shade on MARTA and keep the citizens thinking that GCT or Gwinnett Co can build and run it more efficeintly than MARTA, which has been operating the only true subway in the SE for over 30 years. But really it comes down to giving up control to MARTA and intown interest.

Which is such a ****e way of doing planning. I despise the whole political bull of this stuff. I just want Gwinnett to have quality transit, and I just want the metro to have connectivity. I don't give a ****e which polished turd of a party does it, as long as they do it.