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Old 08-04-2015, 03:39 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,478 posts, read 1,714,458 times
Reputation: 1536

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
Art History, actually.
So symbolism should be VERY important to you, and you must be well aware of the different perspectives, emotions, and response symbols can have for different individuals based on their demographics and upbringing. Therefore, I find it very hard to understand why the symbolism associated with the battle flag escapes you. Either you're ignoring what should be in your face, or you just don't care the negative impact it has on people who aren't like you.
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,319 posts, read 43,781,735 times
Reputation: 16458
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCATL View Post
So symbolism should be VERY important to you, and you must be well aware of the different perspectives, emotions, and response symbols can have for different individuals based on their demographics and upbringing. Therefore, I find it very hard to understand why the symbolism associated with the battle flag escapes you. Either you're ignoring what should be in your face, or you just don't care the negative impact it has on people who aren't like you.
Yes, symbolism is very important to me. Russian iconography is my particular area of interest; I still lecture on it from time to time. I can assure you that there are those that would relish the destruction of this part of history, just as it is apparent that there are those that would destroy any symbol associated with the Confederacy. I see them with the same perspective; that of an academic, l suppose. I believe in their preservation. And yes, l suppose I am guilty sometimes of not seeing past my own passions to regard the opposition as little more than despots and simpletons with little consideration for historical perspective. But so be it.

Last edited by Iconographer; 08-04-2015 at 04:49 PM..
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:40 PM
bu2
 
23,869 posts, read 14,647,736 times
Reputation: 12646
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
That's historic revision

1. extremist are extremist.....

To rebel against a country to start a civil war is an extremist, not to mention treason...

You can't say reconstruction made southern extremist groups like KKK when when reconstruction happen because part the country succeed and was willing to fight the rest to keep their believe states right of slavery, That beyond nuts that actually happen.

2. Since you brought it up The KKK was literally founded by confederate veterans in 1865 Yes in 1865, The Civil War itself ended the same year no time was wasted.


3. Reconstruction era of the south wasn't consider harsh it fact it's consider weak and a failure.

Lincoln second term election was during the war he choose Andrew Johnson a southerner from the opposing party for political reasons.

When Lincoln was assassinate Andrew became president. Andrew Johnson was a confederate sympathizer.


2:30 - 8:00 Andrew Johnson and construction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-NFky03b7g

4. I never said most southerner own slaves I said was willing fight to keep slavery in the south.

Heck their was actually black slave holders before the war and black Confederate troops during the war as well. That doesn't make situation better. If doesn't matter your race the CSA represents the wrong side of history. The CSA was an act of treason in the name of state rights " to cough cough defend slavery"

-----------------

I brought of the Nazi comparison because clearly Germany was also on the wrong side of history but Nazism is not supported in Germany. Nazi symbolism is actually outlaw.....

After the Civil War rather then commending the CSA the south cling on to it then adopt Jim Crow. That's like Germans keeping discriminatory laws to Jews and then wave the Nazi flag saying it's heritage.
Hardly revisionism. Much of it is fact. Why do you think we have weak governors in the South? Why do you think we elect every official instead of having them appointed by the governor. It was specifically a reaction to the governments of Reconstruction. They didn't want governors to have such power again. They wanted to spread it out.

Andrew Johnson wasn't a Confederate sympathizer. He was a Unionist from Tennessee. That required a very strong dedication to the Union. And the policy he wanted was the one Lincoln wanted. What got implemented was the Radical Republican's policy which required years of federal troops being posted in the South.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:44 PM
bu2
 
23,869 posts, read 14,647,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCATL View Post
Great comments. It wouldn't let me rep you

Why choose to adopt a flag that was used to openly oppress thousands of southerners as the symbol for southern heritage? Basically all this says is southern heritage = racism, which is a part of southern (and northern) history, but not what I would define as its sole heritage. I guess supporters of the flag, like Lovin, don't see this message as a bad thing. Let's keep defending a symbol of hate, so that the rest of the world continues to look at the south as the a** backwards part of the United States!
Its the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, NOT the flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate government was corrupt, incompetent and did represent the right to own slaves and secession from the union. That is not the flag that is flown. Its not about the CSA. Its about the people.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:46 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,478 posts, read 1,714,458 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
Yes, symbolism is very important to me. Russian iconography is my particular area of interest; I still lecture on it from time to time. I can assure you that there are those that would relish the destruction of this part of history, just as it is apparent that there are those that would destroy any symbol associated with the Confederacy. I see them with the same perspective; that of an academic, l suppose. I believe in their preservation. And yes, l suppose I am guilty sometimes of not seeing past my own passions to regard the opposition as little more than despots and simpletons with little consideration for historical perspective. But so be it.
I am in agreement with you that we should preserve our history. I never said that I think the flag, or any other piece of the Confederacy, should be erased from our knowledge. No matter how horrible a time the Civil War was, it is a part of our history, a part of who we are as a nation, and should be remembered as such. I am also an academic, and knowledge is power. However, false knowledge, or knowledge that has been construed by the dominant segment of society to make a symbol of hate ok, needs to be corrected. It is this false knowledge, one that claims the Confederate Flag is ONLY a symbol of heritage, that must be corrected. Racism is weaved into our society, and we can only take steps to correct it. Leaving the Confederate Flag to its place in history, such as as a museum item in the National Center for Civil and Human Rights, is one step forward in correcting the wrongs we see happening today.

I am arguing that the relics of the Civil War belong in a museum, and off public property (unless that public property is a Museum). I don't think people should have their rights to wave the flag revoked, I just want people to recognize the hate that is truly symbolized by the flag, and stop claiming it is heritage. This heritage crap needs to go, unless the South permanently wants their heritage to be remembered as one of hate. It doesn't matter how you, me, or any other individual feels about the flag - what matters is that to a large segment of our population, it is a symbol of oppression and was (is) used to demonstrate acts of violence and hate. If my neighbors ignorantly waved the Confederate Flag, I'd call them out on their ignorance, and hopefully educate them more about its history in the Civil Rights movement and by the Klan as a symbol of hate and oppression of a large segment of the American population. I'd let them know that while they may not see past the heritage aspect of the Battle Flag, some of their other neighbors fear what the flag represents and the evil and violence that has come with the flag in the not-so-distant past. We will never get the flag out of the hands of everybody, but everybody should recognize it's true symbolism, and what waving the flag feels like from the perspective of different kinds of people.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:52 PM
 
171 posts, read 179,915 times
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BREAKING NEWS! A major news survey has found that 95% of the people who do not like the Confederate Battle Flag are Muslims, gays, or lesbians!!! I'm not judging, jest reporting.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:58 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,478 posts, read 1,714,458 times
Reputation: 1536
Lovin - That guy ^ (John) is the type of person that the majority sees as a supporter of the Confederate Flag. An obvious racist and bigot - a person who places himself above other segments of the population based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. In another thread, he posted this:

"Check the stats-blacks are a violent race. Always have been from Africa to the USA."

This is what the Confederate Flag represents, and is why it needs to fly only in a museum, where people can read about its history of hate and violence.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:59 PM
bu2
 
23,869 posts, read 14,647,736 times
Reputation: 12646
Quote:
Originally Posted by John2064 View Post
BREAKING NEWS! A major news survey has found that 95% of the people who do not like the Confederate Battle Flag are Muslims, gays, or lesbians!!! I'm not judging, jest reporting.
Actually, there was a survey on CNN showing that 57% of people thought it represented heritage.

The only "false narrative" is that it only represents hate. Some people use it for that, like the ones who placed them at the MLK memorial, but they are a minority.
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:04 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,319 posts, read 43,781,735 times
Reputation: 16458
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCATL View Post
Lovin - That guy ^ (John) is the type of person that the majority sees as a supporter of the Confederate Flag. An obvious racist and bigot - a person who places himself above other segments of the population based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. In another thread, he posted this:

"Check the stats-blacks are a violent race. Always have been from Africa to the USA."

This is what the Confederate Flag represents, and is why it needs to fly only in a museum, where people can read about its history of hate and violence.
You really don't think that I take such a person seriously, do you?
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Old 08-04-2015, 07:23 PM
 
Location: City of Atlanta
1,478 posts, read 1,714,458 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
You really don't think that I take such a person seriously, do you?
I'd hope you don't, but lots of people think that way and put the Confederate Flag in front of those thoughts. Hence all of my previous comments about it symbolizing hate.
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