08-04-2015, 03:39 PM
Location: City of Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
LovinDecatur
Art History, actually.
So symbolism should be VERY important to you, and you must be well aware of the different perspectives, emotions, and response symbols can have for different individuals based on their demographics and upbringing. Therefore, I find it very hard to understand why the symbolism associated with the battle flag escapes you. Either you're ignoring what should be in your face, or you just don't care the negative impact it has on people who aren't like you.
08-04-2015, 04:29 PM
Location: St Simons Island, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCATL
So symbolism should be VERY important to you, and you must be well aware of the different perspectives, emotions, and response symbols can have for different individuals based on their demographics and upbringing. Therefore, I find it very hard to understand why the symbolism associated with the battle flag escapes you. Either you're ignoring what should be in your face, or you just don't care the negative impact it has on people who aren't like you.
Yes, symbolism is very important to me. Russian iconography is my particular area of interest; I still lecture on it from time to time. I can assure you that there are those that would relish the destruction of this part of history, just as it is apparent that there are those that would destroy any symbol associated with the Confederacy. I see them with the same perspective; that of an academic, l suppose. I believe in their preservation. And yes, l suppose I am guilty sometimes of not seeing past my own passions to regard the opposition as little more than despots and simpletons with little consideration for historical perspective. But so be it.
Last edited by Iconographer; 08-04-2015 at 04:49 PM ..
08-04-2015, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
chiatldal
That's historic revision
1. extremist are extremist.....
To rebel against a country to start a civil war is an extremist, not to mention treason...
You can't say reconstruction made southern extremist groups like KKK when when reconstruction happen because part the country succeed and was willing to fight the rest to keep their believe states right of slavery, That beyond nuts that actually happen.
2. Since you brought it up
The KKK was literally
founded by confederate veterans in
1865 Yes in 1865, The Civil War itself ended the same year no time was wasted.
3. Reconstruction era of the south wasn't consider harsh it fact it's consider weak and a failure.
Lincoln second term election was during the war he choose Andrew Johnson a southerner from the opposing party for political reasons.
When Lincoln was assassinate Andrew became president. Andrew Johnson was a confederate sympathizer.
2:30 - 8:00 Andrew Johnson and construction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-NFky03b7g
4. I never said most southerner own slaves I said was willing fight to keep slavery in the south.
Heck their was actually black slave holders before the war and black Confederate troops during the war as well. That doesn't make situation better. If doesn't matter your race the CSA represents the wrong side of history. The CSA was an act of treason in the name of state rights " to cough cough defend slavery"
-----------------
I brought of the Nazi comparison because clearly Germany was also on the wrong side of history but Nazism is not supported in Germany. Nazi symbolism is actually outlaw.....
After the Civil War rather then commending the CSA the south cling on to it then adopt Jim Crow. That's like Germans keeping discriminatory laws to Jews and then wave the Nazi flag saying it's heritage.
Hardly revisionism. Much of it is fact. Why do you think we have weak governors in the South? Why do you think we elect every official instead of having them appointed by the governor. It was specifically a reaction to the governments of Reconstruction. They didn't want governors to have such power again. They wanted to spread it out.
Andrew Johnson wasn't a Confederate sympathizer. He was a Unionist from Tennessee. That required a very strong dedication to the Union. And the policy he wanted was the one Lincoln wanted. What got implemented was the Radical Republican's policy which required years of federal troops being posted in the South.
08-04-2015, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCATL
Great comments. It wouldn't let me rep you
Why choose to adopt a flag that was used to openly oppress thousands of southerners as the symbol for southern heritage? Basically all this says is southern heritage = racism, which is a part of southern (and northern) history, but not what I would define as its sole heritage. I guess supporters of the flag, like Lovin, don't see this message as a bad thing. Let's keep defending a symbol of hate, so that the rest of the world continues to look at the south as the a** backwards part of the United States!
Its the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, NOT the flag of the Confederacy.
The Confederate government was corrupt, incompetent and did represent the right to own slaves and secession from the union. That is not the flag that is flown. Its not about the CSA. Its about the people.
08-04-2015, 05:46 PM
Location: City of Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
LovinDecatur
Yes, symbolism is very important to me. Russian iconography is my particular area of interest; I still lecture on it from time to time. I can assure you that there are those that would relish the destruction of this part of history, just as it is apparent that there are those that would destroy any symbol associated with the Confederacy. I see them with the same perspective; that of an academic, l suppose. I believe in their preservation. And yes, l suppose I am guilty sometimes of not seeing past my own passions to regard the opposition as little more than despots and simpletons with little consideration for historical perspective. But so be it.
I am in agreement with you that we should preserve our history. I never said that I think the flag, or any other piece of the Confederacy, should be erased from our knowledge. No matter how horrible a time the Civil War was, it is a part of our history, a part of who we are as a nation, and should be remembered as such. I am also an academic, and knowledge is power. However, false knowledge, or knowledge that has been construed by the dominant segment of society to make a symbol of hate ok, needs to be corrected. It is this false knowledge, one that claims the Confederate Flag is ONLY a symbol of heritage, that must be corrected. Racism is weaved into our society, and we can only take steps to correct it. Leaving the Confederate Flag to its place in history, such as as a museum item in the National Center for Civil and Human Rights, is one step forward in correcting the wrongs we see happening today.
I am arguing that the relics of the Civil War belong in a museum, and off public property (unless that public property is a Museum). I don't think people should have their rights to wave the flag revoked, I just want people to recognize the hate that is truly symbolized by the flag, and stop claiming it is heritage. This heritage crap needs to go, unless the South permanently wants their heritage to be remembered as one of hate. It doesn't matter how you, me, or any other individual feels about the flag - what matters is that to a large segment of our population, it is a symbol of oppression and was (is) used to demonstrate acts of violence and hate. If my neighbors ignorantly waved the Confederate Flag, I'd call them out on their ignorance, and hopefully educate them more about its history in the Civil Rights movement and by the Klan as a symbol of hate and oppression of a large segment of the American population. I'd let them know that while they may not see past the heritage aspect of the Battle Flag, some of their other neighbors fear what the flag represents and the evil and violence that has come with the flag in the not-so-distant past. We will never get the flag out of the hands of everybody, but everybody should recognize it's true symbolism, and what waving the flag feels like from the perspective of different kinds of people.
08-04-2015, 05:52 PM
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BREAKING NEWS! A major news survey has found that 95% of the people who do not like the Confederate Battle Flag are Muslims, gays, or lesbians!!! I'm not judging, jest reporting.
08-04-2015, 05:58 PM
Location: City of Atlanta
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Lovin - That guy ^ (John) is the type of person that the majority sees as a supporter of the Confederate Flag. An obvious racist and bigot - a person who places himself above other segments of the population based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. In another thread, he posted this:
"Check the stats-blacks are a violent race. Always have been from Africa to the USA."
This is what the Confederate Flag represents, and is why it needs to fly only in a museum, where people can read about its history of hate and violence.
08-04-2015, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
John2064
BREAKING NEWS! A major news survey has found that 95% of the people who do not like the Confederate Battle Flag are Muslims, gays, or lesbians!!! I'm not judging, jest reporting.
Actually, there was a survey on CNN showing that 57% of people thought it represented heritage.
The only "false narrative" is that it only represents hate. Some people use it for that, like the ones who placed them at the MLK memorial, but they are a minority.
08-04-2015, 07:04 PM
Location: St Simons Island, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCATL
Lovin - That guy ^ (John) is the type of person that the majority sees as a supporter of the Confederate Flag. An obvious racist and bigot - a person who places himself above other segments of the population based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. In another thread, he posted this:
"Check the stats-blacks are a violent race. Always have been from Africa to the USA."
This is what the Confederate Flag represents, and is why it needs to fly only in a museum, where people can read about its history of hate and violence.
You really don't think that I take such a person seriously, do you?
08-04-2015, 07:23 PM
Location: City of Atlanta
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Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LovinDecatur
You really don't think that I take such a person seriously, do you?
I'd hope you don't, but lots of people think that way and put the Confederate Flag in front of those thoughts. Hence all of my previous comments about it symbolizing hate.
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People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)