Braves make it official, notify Atlanta they're leaving Turner Field (house, college)

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by bu2

The mistake was not putting the Olympic stadium/Turner Field downtown. Then it really would have had MARTA access.

Agreed. Either near the Dome/GWCC or at Grady Homes (King Memorial station) would've been much better, plus after AFCS was demolished, Summerhill could've recovered much faster.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by evannole

The photo on the left is missing three very important elements:

1) A massive north-south freeway
2) A massive east-west freeway
3) A massive interchange connecting them together

Those three elements likely contributed as much, and perhaps more, to the deterioration and stagnation of the area than Turner Field did.

Sure. But you are still acknowledging that baseball stadiums have a negative effect on an area. Maybe it is not bad enough to actively prohibit one that chooses to locate in your city but regardless it is terrible policy to pay hundreds of millions of tax dollars to lure one in.

Originally Posted by evannole

But on the topic of Turner Field, there are a few important missing elements on the photo on the right as well, because they were never included on the site:

1) A large, established regional mall and associated shopping complexes
2) A significant concentration of Class A office space (no, Downtown isn't that far away, but it isn't close, either)
3) A development associated with and integrated into the ballpark with mid-to-high end shopping, restaurants, a concert venue, office space and a 4-star hotel (no, the Bullpen and Country Inn and Suites don't count) that will see use 365 days/year, eliminating the empty-parking-lot phenomenon that has plagued the Turner Field site.

You may wish that the new site would be deserted and overrun with poverty, crime and blight (and what a petty wish that is), but it's not going to happen.

Sure. Time will tell if those positive assets are able to offset the negative damage done by a stadium. I doubt Cobb government will let anything bad happen to the area any time in the near future. They will continue to pump millions more tax dollars into the area to save face if things start to go down hill. But what happened to Summerhill took decades. We will see how well Cumberland is doing in a couple decades compared to it's peer areas. They already seem to be lagging behind in the development boom even compared to areas like Chamblee / Doraville (and getting absolutely demolished by areas like perimeter and midtown).

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think a baseball stadium with lots of parking lots discourages anything else.

That's why I think the GSU idea has traction. They are putting students on the site right away along with the athletic fields. Students need services.

Could a mixed use work without the school? Maybe. But its really a poor location. Access isn't easy. There's no transit. And its right next to a couple of freeways.

Well the city sought for interest from developers to redevelop the parking lots (with the premise the stadium and team would always be there).

They got interest. The year before the Braves announces their plans to leave the city sought interest/proposals and received 4 different ones. All preliminary, but it would have been a large-scaled master planned project. That is one of the things the Braves and the city seemed to have been in a deadlock over. The Braves wanted to play a bigger role in that, control what was built, and potentially profit from it. There was development interest growing, though.

If anything the stadium and the team were a catalyst to draw development there. The reason I think GSU will bring more traction now is they don't need any demand caused from being near the stadium, but they do need space. They don't have to follow market demand to choose build something. We should also keep in mind there is still a good chance other proposals will be solicited. I just happen to think this is a good expansion opportunity for Georgia State, because they will never get something like this so close to their downtown campus ever again.

That might not be best for the city, however,... a state owned school doesn't bring in property taxes.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Granted the Downtown Connector isn't much better, but at least you had a MARTA option (albeit imperfect) to utilize going to the Ted.

I looked it up a while back and MARTA was taking an average of 3,369 people to the game.

That probably includes a number of workers at the stadium, who may well be the most impacted by MARTA access (or the lack thereof).

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by evannole

The photo on the left is missing three very important elements:

1) A massive north-south freeway
2) A massive east-west freeway
3) A massive interchange connecting them together

Those three elements likely contributed as much, and perhaps more, to the deterioration and stagnation of the area than Turner Field did.

But on the topic of Turner Field, there are a few important missing elements on the photo on the right as well, because they were never included on the site:

1) A large, established regional mall and associated shopping complexes
2) A significant concentration of Class A office space (no, Downtown isn't that far away, but it isn't close, either)
3) A development associated with and integrated into the ballpark with mid-to-high end shopping, restaurants, a concert venue, office space and a 4-star hotel (no, the Bullpen and Country Inn and Suites don't count) that will see use 365 days/year, eliminating the empty-parking-lot phenomenon that has plagued the Turner Field site.

I agree. The current site of Turner Field and the new site are not really comparable.

For one thing, the freeways in Cobb are already in place and have been there a long time.

Secondly, the residential neighborhoods that used to exist in the Summerhill area had fallen into significant decline and had recently been cleared for highways and "urban renewal." By contrast, the new Braves site has been intended for commercial development for years.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I looked it up a while back and MARTA was taking an average of 3,369 people to the game.

That probably includes a number of workers at the stadium, who may well be the most impacted by MARTA access (or the lack thereof).

That's not a ton, but it's not insignificant either. The average game attendance is around 25k, so that's about 13% of attendees taking MARTA. Assuming 4 people/car, that's 842 cars off the road. That's a pretty big deal in terms of traffic, especially in an area like Cumberland where there is already a lot of traffic. 842 cars off the road in a congested area is a pretty big deal, I would think. I doubt many people will be walking or biking to the stadium either, like some currently do.

[0nyxStation]

Originally Posted by bu2

The reason for being in the city is to be in the center of the population and customers. Turner Field isn't.

but why are you telling me this? What is the end goal?

[cqholt]

Because of Cobb County's bond commitment, Lee's new budget reduces the county employee's merit raise from 3% to 2%. This is after the furloughs of 2010 & 2011. Cobb County is losing young, skilled employees to other counties and cities because they refuse to pay employees at the same level and the bond commitment is part of why the compensation is not on the same level. So this stadium deal will start to effect citizens in other ways that they can directly see, lower quality of work because employee morale is low. Cobb County residents are spoiled because they are used to getting a certain level of work from their employees for low payroll but that is now catching up as older, experienced employees start to retire and there are no youbg, skilled employees to fill their spots. Remember the DeKalb water main break and the lack of experience in the DWS taht caused the break to last longer than normal. That will start happening at Cobb unless they pay employees comparable to other counties.

[Fubarbundy]

Doom, doom, and more doom, the C-D cozy Nostradamuses passing the chalice for another sip of sour grape juice strike again, yay.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by Fubarbundy

Doom, doom, and more doom, the C-D cozy Nostradamuses passing the chalice for another sip of sour grape juice strike again, yay.

Well said