Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-01-2015, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,209 posts, read 4,714,844 times
Reputation: 3616

Advertisements

I'm surprised people drive so much because there are shopping centers literally every 1-5 miles at the max.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-01-2015, 03:53 PM
 
37,818 posts, read 41,609,859 times
Reputation: 27103
The lack of arterials/secondary roads explain much of it. In the Piedmont, roads take more of a curvy orientation due to the lay of the land and the urban form isn't gridded. For all of their sprawl, this is why "Western" cities like Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix do a better job with respect to overall density and roads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2015, 05:01 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Talk about waiting decades, building a new outer loop would take decades to complete and cost billions.
Start to finish of Houston's Grand Parkway 18 mile segment D was 11 years. It was 15-16 for the 53 miles of Segments E-G (some will be finished in the next couple of months). But once they got serious and committed to do it, it only took 8 years. The schedule for the next 37 miles is that it will be let next year (segments H & I) and finished in 2019, will be a total of 13 years start to finish. That will complete all but the southern portion of the 3rd loop. 2 other segments totaling 55 miles are scheduled to be finished 2019-2023, but that is still a projection rather than a firm schedule.

Houston's Beltway 8, their 2nd loop, was approved by voters in 1983. It first opened in 1989 with the rest of the tolled section opening in 1990.

But you are right about the billions. I think the West Bypass proposed 3-4 years ago was estimated at 2-3 billion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2015, 05:10 PM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Population increasing = doesn't not equal significant more roads need to built,...... furthermore Atlanta is not gridded there very little Atlanta can do with roads. Many roads and freeways have been blocked because it destroy so much develop already establish. Some areas do need road expansion but that's putting a band aid on a large wound.

Atlanta freeway revolts

To Add to your analogy or metaphor it's giving or growing cocoa and growing corn syrup for junk foods instead of vegetable and healthy options. Road encourage sprawl, growth doesn't have to be sprawl, sprawl development increase dependency on a car which increase traffic.

The Goal of Transportation is to get from A to B, if B wasn't developed so far away from A their would be less issues in the first place. So the logical response is to plan growth itself better. Development and Zoning is just as much apart of transportation as roads and rail lines.

This is why the ARC is encouraging

Lifelong Communities

Transit Oriented Development | Atlanta Regional Commission

Livable Centers Initiative | atlantaregional.com

Sprawling is going to happen, and people are obliviously going to use cars but rate of sprawl can be slowed and necessary of traveling can be decrease.

By increasing mix use communities. Certain areas in Metro Atlanta not just in the city but corridors, Regional center, and town centers though out the metro. This is also act of looking at transportation.
At some point, there will be a pain threshold that will limit the Nimbyism. There's a great amount that could be done here on arterial roads if there was political will. The unwillingness to build harms the quality of life. It leads to cut-through traffic, more pollution from idling cars and time spent sitting in traffic.

Just to give a couple of small example, it wouldn't be that destructive to expand LaVista to 4 lanes in DeKalb County just beyond the Fulton County line. There are very large lots there with houses on the south side set well back and decent setbacks on the northern side. Another road that is only two lanes is Lenox road below the mall towards I-85. There's room there as well. It looks like they required some developers to set aside ROW, but haven't done so with others. Still, it wouldn't be that hard to do-if there was political will. Both of those roads have massive backups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,576 posts, read 10,714,266 times
Reputation: 6522
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
At some point, there will be a pain threshold that will limit the Nimbyism. There's a great amount that could be done here on arterial roads if there was political will. The unwillingness to build harms the quality of life. It leads to cut-through traffic, more pollution from idling cars and time spent sitting in traffic.

Just to give a couple of small example, it wouldn't be that destructive to expand LaVista to 4 lanes in DeKalb County just beyond the Fulton County line. There are very large lots there with houses on the south side set well back and decent setbacks on the northern side. Another road that is only two lanes is Lenox road below the mall towards I-85. There's room there as well. It looks like they required some developers to set aside ROW, but haven't done so with others. Still, it wouldn't be that hard to do-if there was political will. Both of those roads have massive backups.
I agree, but I don't think all things should be solved with widenings in all places. The real problem is the lack of parallel routes in many cases and the big problem with nimbyism in fixing an arterial road grid (curvy or not) comes down to two philosophies: 1) The preventing of neighborhoods to change on existing residential lots; preservation of low density character.... in so many of the neighborhoods and 2) the inability to make even relatively few homeowners be forced to deal with what is seen as "cut-thru" traffic.

Using the Buckhead area as an example... There are at least 4 major parallel routes going North south through the area, even if curvy.

However, there are only 2 east-west routes, which one is also a north south route that curves northeasterly and the other is really a connector road to GA400 that only goes a short distance and dead ends to north south routes at both ends.

Then we have to deal with oddities like Ashford Dunwoody and Johnson Ferry Rd merging together and splitting a part.

The issue is we aren't making simple fixes that could have a large impact on traffic flow of existing streets, because of the immediate impact on a handful of SFH parcels. What is more troubling is we are encouraging denser in-fill development around these places that need to be fixed and most traffic in the future will just be local traffic jammed up.

One thing Atlanta does have sort of an arterial "grid," but it is just curvy and it shifts directions. Even Gwinnett County's arterial are mostly in a un-neat grid despite a high amount of curves, but neighborhood streets are a different story.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2015, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,753,815 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Start to finish of Houston's Grand Parkway 18 mile segment D was 11 years. It was 15-16 for the 53 miles of Segments E-G (some will be finished in the next couple of months). But once they got serious and committed to do it, it only took 8 years. The schedule for the next 37 miles is that it will be let next year (segments H & I) and finished in 2019, will be a total of 13 years start to finish. That will complete all but the southern portion of the 3rd loop. 2 other segments totaling 55 miles are scheduled to be finished 2019-2023, but that is still a projection rather than a firm schedule.

Houston's Beltway 8, their 2nd loop, was approved by voters in 1983. It first opened in 1989 with the rest of the tolled section opening in 1990.

But you are right about the billions. I think the West Bypass proposed 3-4 years ago was estimated at 2-3 billion.
A lot flatter than Atlanta and I am sure they preserved the ROW for the roads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2015, 07:38 AM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I agree, but I don't think all things should be solved with widenings in all places. The real problem is the lack of parallel routes in many cases and the big problem with nimbyism in fixing an arterial road grid (curvy or not) comes down to two philosophies: 1) The preventing of neighborhoods to change on existing residential lots; preservation of low density character.... in so many of the neighborhoods and 2) the inability to make even relatively few homeowners be forced to deal with what is seen as "cut-thru" traffic.

Using the Buckhead area as an example... There are at least 4 major parallel routes going North south through the area, even if curvy.

However, there are only 2 east-west routes, which one is also a north south route that curves northeasterly and the other is really a connector road to GA400 that only goes a short distance and dead ends to north south routes at both ends.

Then we have to deal with oddities like Ashford Dunwoody and Johnson Ferry Rd merging together and splitting a part.

The issue is we aren't making simple fixes that could have a large impact on traffic flow of existing streets, because of the immediate impact on a handful of SFH parcels. What is more troubling is we are encouraging denser in-fill development around these places that need to be fixed and most traffic in the future will just be local traffic jammed up.

One thing Atlanta does have sort of an arterial "grid," but it is just curvy and it shifts directions. Even Gwinnett County's arterial are mostly in a un-neat grid despite a high amount of curves, but neighborhood streets are a different story.
DeKalb is even worse with the alternatives. The railroads, I-85 and city of Decatur cutoff north/south access. The exits off I-85 are N. Druid Hills which runs E/W, Clairmont which runs N/S and ends at Decatur, Shallowford Road which goes north into Doraville and South only to Briarcliff and Chamblee Tucker which runs E/W. Clairmont and Briarcliff (part E/W, part N/S) are the only through N/S streets until you get to 285. And Briarcliff is mostly 2 lanes with no left turn lanes-and frequently no sidewalks either. Its mostly just a parking lot until 9:30 or so (and sometimes later) and starting around 3 in the afternoon. You can't even get from Lawrenceville Highway to LaVista except for 2 short roads between N. Decatur and 285.

One relatively inexpensive thing that needs to be done is more and longer left turn lanes. Decatur is talking about trying to lower speeds on Scott St., but the biggest issue is that people back up at the Scott/Clairmont intersection. The single left turn lane northbound on Scott backs up to the elementary school about 1/4 mile away in the morning. That leads to a lot of people running lights and causing accidents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,753,815 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
DeKalb is even worse with the alternatives. The railroads, I-85 and city of Decatur cutoff north/south access. The exits off I-85 are N. Druid Hills which runs E/W, Clairmont which runs N/S and ends at Decatur, Shallowford Road which goes north into Doraville and South only to Briarcliff and Chamblee Tucker which runs E/W. Clairmont and Briarcliff (part E/W, part N/S) are the only through N/S streets until you get to 285. And Briarcliff is mostly 2 lanes with no left turn lanes-and frequently no sidewalks either. Its mostly just a parking lot until 9:30 or so (and sometimes later) and starting around 3 in the afternoon. You can't even get from Lawrenceville Highway to LaVista except for 2 short roads between N. Decatur and 285.

One relatively inexpensive thing that needs to be done is more and longer left turn lanes. Decatur is talking about trying to lower speeds on Scott St., but the biggest issue is that people back up at the Scott/Clairmont intersection. The single left turn lane northbound on Scott backs up to the elementary school about 1/4 mile away in the morning. That leads to a lot of people running lights and causing accidents.
There is not enough ROW to add another left turn lane and maybe GDOT does not want to spend the money buy expensive land. 2 left turn lanes are standard for intersecting arterial roads, but not when the ROW was bought decades ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2015, 11:57 AM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
A lot flatter than Atlanta and I am sure they preserved the ROW for the roads.
They had to buy tear down some stuff. Zoning is a lot weaker in Texas and people did build in routes that had been proposed for many years. But definitely flatter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-02-2015, 11:59 AM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,701,286 times
Reputation: 12711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
There is not enough ROW to add another left turn lane and maybe GDOT does not want to spend the money buy expensive land. 2 left turn lanes are standard for intersecting arterial roads, but not when the ROW was bought decades ago.
Well if we want to improve things, you have to spend money. And there's plenty of vacant land at that Scott/Clairmont intersection. The buildings on the corners are well set back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top