Braves' Bridge Chances Dim (Atlanta, Arlington: to buy, live, restaurant)

[Mishap]

chiatldal,

Regardless if Arlington wants to be a suburban Disney paradise or downtown Tokyo the effect around the stadium is precisely what Cobb will wind up with if they do not get realistic about their lofty projections w/o a real transit plan and a reality check on the Braves' promises for this stadium turned utopia. Intent isn't the issue here...it's just a byproduct of building a special purpose building that require massive parking lots while creating unique traffic patterns that aren't compatible w/ businesses that require regular access.

Jerry Jones is just realistic enough to understand that people want to get into a stadium quickly, enjoy a good game, and get out of dodge when the game is over. The people of Arlington fronted $315M for the biggest/most profitable NFL team there is on a $1.15B stadium.


AT&T Stadium
85,000 capacity / 12,000 spaces & 12,000 at Globe Life Park = 3.54 people/car

Turner Field (parking so inadequate they had to spend $1B to get away)
49,000 / 8,500 spaces = 5.76 people/car

Suntrust Field
41,500 / 6,000 spaces = 6.92 people/car


I see the only true long term solution is for the Braves is to sign a promotion with Chevy for a lease offer for all season ticket holders to get 9 seater Suburbans and carpool from Town Center mall. Ought to get rid of the fair weather fans.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by Mishap

chiatldal,

Regardless if Arlington wants to be a suburban Disney paradise or downtown Tokyo the effect around the stadium is precisely what Cobb will wind up with if they do not get realistic about their lofty projections w/o a real transit plan and a reality check on the Braves' promises for this stadium turned utopia. Intent isn't the issue here...it's just a byproduct of building a special purpose building that require massive parking lots while creating unique traffic patterns that aren't compatible w/ businesses that require regular access.

Jerry Jones is just realistic enough to understand that people want to get into a stadium quickly, enjoy a good game, and get out of dodge when the game is over. The people of Arlington fronted $315M for the biggest/most profitable NFL team there is on a $1.15B stadium.


AT&T Stadium
85,000 capacity / 12,000 spaces & 12,000 at Globe Life Park = 3.54 people/car

Turner Field (parking so inadequate they had to spend $1B to get away)
49,000 / 8,500 spaces = 5.76 people/car

Suntrust Field
41,500 / 6,000 spaces = 6.92 people/car


I see the only true long term solution is for the Braves is to sign a promotion with Chevy for a lease offer for all season ticket holders to get 9 seater Suburbans and carpool from Town Center mall. Ought to get rid of the fair weather fans.

three points

1. You acting like Mix use developments can't be in suburbs... whether or not they build SunTrust Park the idea of a mix use development there isn't a radical idea. Your also acting like most stadiums and fields aren't already in urban environments. I agree Cumberland needs to work on transportation plans. But most stadiums are in urban environment it does not hurt the business that surround them. All this mean is Cumberland need to find parking solution and improve transit ideas.

2. But what your doing is trying to compare Cumberland to random suburban areas with stadiums whom had completely different agendas from the jump.

Then you compared it to North Arlington in which your giving a blandly inaccurate description of the area, "The area around the stadiums is still devoid of any organic retail, restaurants or homes."......... let's bring reality in for a second that area around the stadiums otherwise North Arlington is 100,000 in 20 sq mi... It's home to a significant amount "retail, restaurants or homes" that meets the needs of that population.

3. "the effect around the stadium" in Arlington is cause by the way developer planned, and the already built environment. Both of which is very different from Cumberland.

You brought up the Warehouse district to East of the Stadiums in Arlington what does this have do with the Stadium? The reason it's spacious around the Stadiums is because it's a parkland. You also completely ignore The highland populated areas to East. What does any of this has to do with Cumberland absolutely nothing.

But your using a inaccurate description of Arlington........ to marginalize Cumberland.

[jsvh]

So we seem to be in agreement that stadium area in Arlington are not desirable outcome.

Can you give an example of a desirable stadium area without rail transit that you think Cumberland can duplicate?

[whodean]

There isn't an example of a master planned MLB development like this anywhere, The closest example to what the Braves are doing with integrated mixed use is Ballpark Village in St. Louis.

[Mishap]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

three points

1. You acting like Mix use developments can't be in suburbs... whether or not they build SunTrust Park the idea of a mix use development there isn't a radical idea. Your also acting like most stadiums and fields aren't already in urban environments. I agree Cumberland needs to work on transportation plans. But most stadiums are in urban environment it does not hurt the business that surround them. All this mean is Cumberland need to find parking solution and improve transit ideas.

2. But what your doing is trying to compare Cumberland to random suburban areas with stadiums whom had completely different agendas from the jump.

Then you compared it to North Arlington in which your giving a blandly inaccurate description of the area, "The area around the stadiums is still devoid of any organic retail, restaurants or homes."......... let's bring reality in for a second that area around the stadiums otherwise North Arlington is 100,000 in 20 sq mi... It's home to a significant amount "retail, restaurants or homes" that meets the needs of that population.

3. "the effect around the stadium" in Arlington is cause by the way developer planned, and the already built environment. Both of which is very different from Cumberland.

You brought up the Warehouse district to East of the Stadiums in Arlington what does this have do with the Stadium? The reason it's spacious around the Stadiums is because it's a parkland. You also completely ignore The highland populated areas to East. What does any of this has to do with Cumberland absolutely nothing.

But your using a inaccurate description of Arlington........ to marginalize Cumberland.

1. Yes, stadiums do exist in urban environments. Usually they go up in existing dense areas or there's such a dramatic lack of land you wind up building up to it. Most of them do not naturally attract development and virtually all attempts to force the issue result in underwhelming retail/commercial space (see the Marlins).

2. Agenda isn't the question. How you decided to get to a big parking lot isn't the problem...it's the fact that stadiums fare better w/ huge swaths of parking b/c that's what the primary patrons care about on gameday. Season ticket holders still have regular jobs and I don't think they'll be able to create the Braves equivalent of Disneyworld on 60 acres.

3. Yes, it's planned b/c they were realistic about what makes a stadium enjoyable...shuffling tens of thousands of people in and out of the event quickly/safely and being ok w/ a whole lot of parking lots. Dropping in office space next to an event space doesn't mean it will succeed and that others will be rushing to do so. Atlanta has plenty of office space that doesn't require trip planning around baseball season and some of it even has real access to transit. Cobb is investing in some crackpot trying to build a city at the bottom of the ocean and has already spent all the projected tax earnings.

[DirkMcGirt]

A football stadium used for 12-14 football events a year and maybe another 20 large events a year is not conducive for mixed-use development. A baseball stadium used 81+ times a year is. Jerry World was designed to be it's own stand alone facility.

Perhaps some of y'all don't understand the first thing about sports, but there is a real difference between the two stadium types.

[jsvh]

A gravel 81-day-a-year parking lot is going to the most profitable commercial business in the Cumberland area and will push out other businesses near the stadium in coming decades.

[arjay57]

Interesting that folks who neither live in Cobb nor like it are now concerned about whether it is urban enough.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Interesting that folks who neither live in Cobb nor like it are now concerned about whether it is urban enough.

Is it though? I mean must suburbanites have traditionally been very concerned (and succeeded) with making the city suburban enough, even to the point of demolishing entire parts of the city to build their highways.

Also, I like to see good planning go into the entire region.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by jsvh

So we seem to be in agreement that stadium area in Arlington are not desirable outcome.

Can you give an example of a desirable stadium area without rail transit that you think Cumberland can duplicate?

Umm no yall seem be detach from reality that actually over 100,000 people in 20 Sq mi around stadium in Arlington are already there.

Sandy Spring Aerial

So basically acting like this doesn't exist,

North Arlington TX Aerial

North Arlington TX Aerial

North Arlington TX Aerial

So trying describe the stadium area in Arlington as not desirable mean while the area is far denser than suburban Metro Atlanta. To call "stadium area in Arlington are not desirable" and say stuff like it's "empty" would calling entire suburban metro Atlanta not desirable and empty because actually nothing suburban metro Atlanta is that dense.



Also your asking for fallacy

Most stadiums are in urban area already

Mix use development in suburban areas is nothing revolutionary.

This mean Cumberland needs work on parking and transit. but instead of discussing this, yall are discussing a fallacy because there no technical suburban stadium that have adjusted urban development. But this means little because the two components of that exist in plenty. Also each stadium area is a unique situation.

The Stadium and Mix use development both can exist in the Cumberland without each other, putting them together doesn't not conflict with each other. The only issue that exist is Cumberland needs to work on parking options and improve transit solution that's unique that area.