MARTA needs to do whatever it takes to keep Keith Parker. (Atlanta: sales, neighborhood)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I don't see what's wrong with the routes. Most of the ones I'm familiar with all seem to make logical sense.

The changes I would make, would be to reduce the # of stops on the routes, perhaps even in half or less. And each of those stops need to have clear signage, lighting, shelter, benches, trash can, the works. And, ideally, off-board fare handling.

Then just give every stop an official name, and represent the entire bus system on the official rail map in the trains. With thin lines and small dots and smaller text than the rail lines.

Voila, then you've got a serious rapid bus transit system that even scared white people will ride, and the entire MARTA network suddenly looks great on a map. Bus doesn't even need signal priority or transit lanes, though those would be great where possible.

You are suggesting a huge investment for even half the existing stops to have all you listed, and why implement off-board fare handling if electronic fare collection is the future? I would say the existing shelters cost at least $50K.
I do agree bus stops can be reduced to 1 every 2 blocks.
Representing every bus route on the rail map is bad cartography. It would become too cluttered and first time riders would be confused. Maps have to be simple and easy to convey the info to the reader. Representing BRT or high frequency routes is not a bad idea, but not every route.

[primaltech]

But cq, not only are you not a first time rider, you're a transit advocate. I'm just talking from the perspective of someone who's never even been to Georgia, and just stepped off the plane onto the train at Airport station. Or that person who lives in Hall county and parked at Doraville and is trying out navigating Atlanta's transit system for the first time. Exactly the new bus riders that MARTA needs. They shouldn't have to do internet research beforehand to figure out what bus # routes take them to various destinations they want to check out. The whole bus and rail system should be easily navigable by a quick glance, clearly visible the second you step on a train or a bus, or walk up to a bus station, or open the official app.

Again this is just my opinion and preference. But what I would do if I was Keith, is step back and re-think the bus system, as a vehicle rapid transit system. As one half of a half-rail, half-bus based comprehensive metro rapid transit network. And not even with stops or even thought of us traditional routes, but with fixed, named, semi-permanent stations, thought of as nodes, on a line. Just like as if it was a train. I would even get rid of the route numbers, and replace with letters. Each letter having its own distinct color shade as well.

Working within existing funding levels, yeah that would mean canceling routes and having less routes. But to me, if you want to get a lot more regular riders and change the culture of the bus and make it popular, it needs to be branded as rapid transit, not a dinky local bus. Limited stops, spaced a few blocks apart, at key locations and at park & ride lots. The map would need to be re-designed in a way that fits all the rail and bus lines neatly and clearly in there, with an emphasis on using simplified straight lines, and an emphasis on the stops (bus stations) that serve different intersecting routes, as a connection/transfer point.

The issue with MARTA bus is perception. Needs a re-birth, re-thinking, re-branding. Less routes, far less stops, but all of them high quality, and with an emphasis on frequency, speed, reliability, safety. I believe this could be accomplished even with navigating the existing road system in normal mixed traffic. And even with the current regular size buses. Articulated buses could be used on the highest ridership routes.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I wonder if DC would be a pay cut? MBTA was a pay cut for Scott.

Paul Wiedefeld Officially Appointed as Metro's General Manager | NBC4 Washington

Paul-Wiedefeld was appointed last month as the new GM. He will make $397,500.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Paul Wiedefeld Officially Appointed as Metro's General Manager | NBC4 Washington

Paul-Wiedefeld was appointed last month as the new GM. He will make $397,500.

[tikigod311]

I think re-branding the bus routs is a great idea, especially for specific corridors. Add some synchronized lights to mix and call it BRT. The bus map isn't very welcoming as is. I think representing certain high traffic bus routes that don't stray from the main road as primary transit line would do wonders for appealing to new riders.

Most people are going to look at this and say screw it:

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

But cq, not only are you not a first time rider, you're a transit advocate. I'm just talking from the perspective of someone who's never even been to Georgia, and just stepped off the plane onto the train at Airport station. Or that person who lives in Hall county and parked at Doraville and is trying out navigating Atlanta's transit system for the first time. Exactly the new bus riders that MARTA needs. They shouldn't have to do internet research beforehand to figure out what bus # routes take them to various destinations they want to check out. The whole bus and rail system should be easily navigable by a quick glance, clearly visible the second you step on a train or a bus, or walk up to a bus station, or open the official app.

Again this is just my opinion and preference. But what I would do if I was Keith, is step back and re-think the bus system, as a vehicle rapid transit system. As one half of a half-rail, half-bus based comprehensive metro rapid transit network. And not even with stops or even thought of us traditional routes, but with fixed, named, semi-permanent stations, thought of as nodes, on a line. Just like as if it was a train. I would even get rid of the route numbers, and replace with letters. Each letter having its own distinct color shade as well.

Working within existing funding levels, yeah that would mean canceling routes and having less routes. But to me, if you want to get a lot more regular riders and change the culture of the bus and make it popular, it needs to be branded as rapid transit, not a dinky local bus. Limited stops, spaced a few blocks apart, at key locations and at park & ride lots. The map would need to be re-designed in a way that fits all the rail and bus lines neatly and clearly in there, with an emphasis on using simplified straight lines, and an emphasis on the stops (bus stations) that serve different intersecting routes, as a connection/transfer point.

The issue with MARTA bus is perception. Needs a re-birth, re-thinking, re-branding. Less routes, far less stops, but all of them high quality, and with an emphasis on frequency, speed, reliability, safety. I believe this could be accomplished even with navigating the existing road system in normal mixed traffic. And even with the current regular size buses. Articulated buses could be used on the highest ridership routes.

Every station and bus loop at a station has a full sized system map. You are contridicating yourself when you say

The whole bus and rail system should be easily navigable by a quick glance,

because if all the bus routes where included on the small rail map, it would not be easily navigable.
When it comes to your suggestions, MARTA has hired the same company that overhauled Houston's METRO bus system, which did cut routes and stops but added more frequent and direct service. They did all this using the existing funding levels.
Let us just sit back and see what the EXPERTS come up with before we dismiss MARTA bus. I have always thought MARTA needs to brand it's service; MARTARail, MARTALocal, MARTARapid, MARTALimited, etc. similar to LACMTA.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I think re-branding the bus routs is a great idea, especially for specific corridors. Add some synchronized lights to mix and call it BRT. The bus map isn't very welcoming as is. I think representing certain high traffic bus routes that don't stray from the main road as primary transit line would do wonders for appealing to new riders.

Most people are going to look at this and say screw it:

The light sync is something easily done with Atlanta upgrading it's signals to use cameras instead of loops. If the lights are installed with a sensor to detect the bus's AVL signal and make the change to the cycles.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The light sync is something easily done with Atlanta upgrading it's signals to use cameras instead of loops. If the lights are installed with a sensor to detect the bus's AVL signal and make the change to the cycles.

Nice, I never knew that's what those were in other cities. Thought it was for emergency vehicles, makes sense it works with buses too.

Seems like a camera isn't even necessary these days. A simple connected device with a gps unit should suffice. Whatever is done, we need more smart lights around town. It would make everyone's life better.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

Nice, I never knew that's what those were in other cities. Thought it was for emergency vehicles, makes sense it works with buses too.

Seems like a camera isn't even necessary these days. A simple connected device with a gps unit should suffice. Whatever is done, we need more smart lights around town. It would make everyone's life better.

The cameras control the signals and when it should cycle. It has replaced the loops in the pavement.

[primaltech]

I really like Seattle's Rapid Ride bus system. Everything's 24/7. Limited stops. Traffic light priority. Everything's 10 minute frequency during peak, 15 during off peak (much like MARTA trains). And the best part of it IMO is that there are only 6 lines to comprehend. A, B, C, D, E, and F.

Like our 'A Line' could be the whole length of the Peachtree Rd/St corridor. And potentially MARTA could consolidate different local routes into one rapid line. Seems like all of ITP could be just a few lines.

I'll just work on a home brew fantasy rapid bus concept map soon and I'll add it to the 'Design your own MARTA' thread. Of course we leave it to the experts and those who can actually make these decisions, but I like to at least contribute my opinions and ideas to the transit advocate community.

I don't dismiss MARTA bus at all, I want to see it shine, and to me that requires an overhaul, and some measure of re-branding and 're-identity'. And no stops where it's just a pole in the mud with a MARTA logo on it, on some poorly lit road. Most people simply do not feel comfortable with that. They'd rather sit in traffic in their private car.

To me, the main appeal of a car is the express nature of it. Even in the worst of traffic congestion conditions. You start at your start point, and you travel directly (however slow) to your end point, with the fewest possible unnecessary or indirect stops in between. And that's what I feel like a bus system/network should more or less be like. 1 or 2 stop points per entire neighborhood or section of the city. So that while you may have to walk a little farther to get to your start point or your end point, there will be far less stopping during the journey, just so that maybe 1 or 2 people can get on or off each time. The bus should be like a train. 10 or more people should be getting on and off at each stop.