MARTA visiting Emory/CDC area to discuss expansion (Atlanta, Smyrna: 2015, apartments)

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by 0nyxStation

This idea of Marta chasing people is bad. I think they are better off investing in property management or real estate.

So, you think a rail expansion serving a very congested area is a bad idea?

With all these properties in Atlanta over charging for rent, Marta could do many justice.

Overcharging? Virtually all of these places seem to be doing fine with 95+% occupancy.

[alco89]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Making it HRT with a $1 billion budget would only get it to North Decatur Road.

I know that.

[primaltech]

Thanks fourthwarden for the great post! I had never seen those station platform pics before. Now I am sold on it being a light rail, and I love it.

Makes me think, where else in the metro could MARTA do a light rail line that links up with their HRT backbone...

Cough285cough...

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Thanks fourthwarden for the great post! I had never seen those station platform pics before. Now I am sold on it being a light rail, and I love it.

Makes me think, where else in the metro could MARTA do a light rail line that links up with their HRT backbone...

Cough285cough...

Top End Perimeter should be HRT for the speed and connection, if the Gold Line is ever extended up to Gwinnett, one line could route across the Top End and another continue into Atlanta.

[arjay57]

Thanks, fourthwarden, most informative.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

MARTA extends outreach to Business Community along the Clifton Corridor (PDF)




It looks like MARTA will run the Light Rail up from the CSX right of way, onto the Red/Gold right of way for the 2,300 ft approach into Lindbergh Station. There are a few things they could then do:

1. Add platforms next to the current HRT platforms
   
2. Add platforms at the end, and slightly set off from the current HRT platforms
   
3. Add platforms to the streets that encircle the station's street-level
   
4. Turn that green-space at the corner of Lindbergh Dr and Market St into platforms (~300ft long space can fit 3, 80ft unit trains with 60ft left over)

MARTA looked into making the corridor into HRT, but decided that, due to neighborhood concerns, as well as a much shorter route possibility, that LRT would better fit (not necessarily serve, but physically fit) into the corridor.

Much of the advantages of HRT would be lost to the corridor's comparatively tight curves after the CSX right of way passes through the CDC / Emory Campus, and would be unable to continue onto / under the street without far more local displacement.

Actually, if you look at the station maps for the corridor, they'll be adding the platform on the street along Lindbergh Lane.

These maps, while not final, do actually show how street-level stations like N.Decatur and Clifton Road stations would be integrated, and actually show that the LRT tracks, when not in a tunnel or an aerial section, run down a dedicated median only for the trains, with new lanes being added to the side.

More alignment maps with aerial overlay



Here's the cost break down. We are looking at $1.2 Bil. for 8.5 miles (17 track miles) of grade-separated light rail in tunnels, aerial, and realigned street sections. That's ~$71 million per track mile. Note that this figure includes the tunnels, aerials, etc. In comparison, the 2.7 track mile downtown streetcar cost ~$37 million per track mile at the time. We're also looking at getting three times the number of vehicles and the support facilities for them.

The route will be mostly separated from traffic in either aerial, tunnels, or dedicated medians, allowing the trains to mostly ignore the cars, if not move without worrying about the all-together.

Make no mistake, this will not be some cute little trolley, nor will it be like the streetcars downtown. This will, for all intensive purposes, be a train on its own, moving independent of traffic and carrying many more people much further distances.

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by Scared to Life

Clifton corridor will be similar technology and working to the Charlotte Lynx line. Mostly its own ROW few road crossings. I actually like the integration in the CDC/Emory area. People are commuting to and from this area, that what seems to be the main focus of this train line

Yeah that Lynx Line in Charlotte is a breeze since it doesn't have to stop at every light



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYB9lMKXY4

[onemanarmy]

Originally Posted by afdinatl

Yeah that Lynx Line in Charlotte is a breeze since it doesn't have to stop at every light



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYB9lMKXY4

I rode it once on my trip to Charlotte and was a little underwhelmed. I changed my opinion since traveling to LA and realizing LRT usefulness if a part of a bigger system. I now realize how lucky Atlanta is to have HRT, and LRT is 100 times better than a bus. I'm optimistic LRT can work.

[afdinatl]

Originally Posted by onemanarmy

I rode it once on my trip to Charlotte and was a little underwhelmed. I changed my opinion since traveling to LA and realizing LRT usefulness if a part of a bigger system. I now realize how lucky Atlanta is to have HRT, and LRT is 100 times better than a bus. I'm optimistic LRT can work.

It definitely will work especially for that part of town.

Yeah we are lucky to have HRT. Thanks Seattle!

[primaltech]

I kinda think that top end perimeter should be a LRT line, with the same vehicles and station design as this one. Especially once the Gold line is eventually extended through Gwinnett.

Start at Dunwoody station with the platform in the median of Hammond Dr, then you could go east to Ravinia, Perimeter Center East, Chamblee Dunwoody, N Shallowford, N Peachtree, Peachtree Industrial, Doraville station. Then you could even continue to Embry Hills and Northlake, to bring park&ride rail service to Tucker and the outer parts of LaVista Hills.

It could also eventually continue west from Dunwoody station over to Cumberland, via Roswell Rd and Powers Ferry.

Anyway, light rail is certainly awesome for the low construction costs, with the very simple needs for tracks and simple platforms. Also the flexibility is incredible. Along the road, beside the road, under, over, sharp turns, whatever.

We are so lucky to have HRT since it is the best, but it's too difficult to construct now (besides extensions at the end of lines), so LRT should make up the rest of the system and metro and regional connectivity. Also makes for ideal cross-directional connections with existing HRT stations. Like the Avondale platform proposal pic above.

So hopeful for the funding to happen next year for this, and excited for when they start prepping for construction...

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Top End Perimeter should be HRT for the speed and connection, if the Gold Line is ever extended up to Gwinnett, one line could route across the Top End and another continue into Atlanta.

To go off of that:

Transit Technologies Worksheet (Reconnecting America)

HRT:

Cost: $50 - $250 Million per mile
Capacity: up to 1048 persons (262 persons/per pair * 4 pair trains)

LRT:

Cost: $20 - $60 Million per mile
Capacity: up to 495 persons (195 persons/trainset * 3 trainsets)

Looking here in the region:

Connect 400 HRT Cost: $244 Mil. Per mile

I-20 East HRT Cost: $167 Mil. Per Mile (couldn't find a purely HRT cost, so this actually includes the BRT cost without the BRT miles included)

Clifton Corridor LRT Cost: $141 mil. Per Mile

Downtown Streetcar Cost: $74 Mil. Per Mile

SO. What does all of this say? What I see is that LRT done much like the Clifton Corridor, with dedicated rights of way, aerials, and tunnels, can be compatible in cost to HRT, while still loosing maximum vehicle speed (70mph for the MARTA Breda cars vs. 35mph for the Siemens trains) and maximum capacity.

A note on capacity: MARTA trains can get up to 8 cars long (4 married pairs), which is 600 ft in length. An equivalent string of Siemens LRT trains, would be 7.5 trains. So, while 4 pairs of MARTA cars gets you 1048 passengers total, 7.5 Siemens trains get you 1462 persons (1365 for only 7 trains). I personally don't know of any agency that runs 7 train LRT strings, though, and I imagine there's an upper limit to how many can be coupled together. If anyone else does, please let me know.

Basically, with everything else, it'll depend on the route. Along the I-285 corridor, it'll cost more in the more dense sections around / between I-400 and I-85, while costing less in the less dense sections. There are 11.5 miles between the Fulton / Cobb Co. line and I-85. There are an additional 3 miles to Cumberland from the Fulton / Cobb Co. line. There would NEED to be a proper analysis of the route with LPAs to get a realistic cost estimate (I tried to find some from the revive 285 papers, but there wasn't really anything there), but my gut tells me the costs will be similar whether you do LRT or HRT.