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Old 12-20-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,242 posts, read 6,212,771 times
Reputation: 2778

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I would whole heartily fight a transfer of the Beltline corridor from a pedestrian/LRT corridor to HRT. That is INSANE. The Beltline is the greatest thing to happen to Atlanta since MARTA itself. I don't care who is behind it, it won't happen. This will make the freeway revolts look like a form letter to a congressman.

Beltline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commuter Rail (and I want commuter rail)
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,669,304 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post

It's option 1.

Not necessarily too lengthy. Public property appropriation by higher public agencies is a good deal faster than say acquisition of private land.
Matt, as much as I generally agree with you and appreciate your input / info, I sure do hope you're wrong about this. All you need to see is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
I would whole heartily fight a transfer of the Beltline corridor from a pedestrian/LRT corridor to HRT. That is INSANE. The Beltline is the greatest thing to happen to Atlanta since MARTA itself. I don't care who is behind it, it won't happen. This will make the freeway revolts look like a form letter to a congressman.

Beltline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commuter Rail (and I want commuter rail)
Not that you can do much about it, if it is in fact something the state is working on, but I would hope, whoever is planning it, realizes the pushback they're about to experience.

Not only will they have the city and ABI fighting that plan, but they will have pretty much every person along the East Side corridor too. They will have every business that opened its doors towards the trails. They will have a huge swath of people who use that trail (and there are A LOT who do). They will have neighborhoods, conservatories, and organizations all amassing against it. Heck, they'll have pro and anti transit folks alike up in arms as they try and set it up to tear out a VERY heavily used section of urban design.

As much as I like the idea of the state finally caring enough to push for commuter rail, I can't say I see them caring enough to try and run rails through the East Side like that. To whoever is planning on it, I say that it'd be much more worth their time to try and get the railroads to work together to redesign Howel Y, and its approach tracks. A state-lead, public / private funded effort to redo that whole interchange would be far more beneficial to everyone than rebuilding the BeltLine for commuter rail.
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:24 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
6,495 posts, read 6,083,958 times
Reputation: 4453
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Matt, as much as I generally agree with you and appreciate your input / info, I sure do hope you're wrong about this. All you need to see is:



Not that you can do much about it, if it is in fact something the state is working on, but I would hope, whoever is planning it, realizes the pushback they're about to experience.

Not only will they have the city and ABI fighting that plan, but they will have pretty much every person along the East Side corridor too. They will have every business that opened its doors towards the trails. They will have a huge swath of people who use that trail (and there are A LOT who do). They will have neighborhoods, conservatories, and organizations all amassing against it. Heck, they'll have pro and anti transit folks alike up in arms as they try and set it up to tear out a VERY heavily used section of urban design.

As much as I like the idea of the state finally caring enough to push for commuter rail, I can't say I see them caring enough to try and run rails through the East Side like that. To whoever is planning on it, I say that it'd be much more worth their time to try and get the railroads to work together to redesign Howel Y, and its approach tracks. A state-lead, public / private funded effort to redo that whole interchange would be far more beneficial to everyone than rebuilding the BeltLine for commuter rail.
Bingo. Assuming the state was that desperate to attempt this (they aren't), if the 1970s-era GDOT (at the peak of its highway-building prowess) couldn't get a freeway through the "declining" Eastside intown neighborhoods, then there is no way they would be able to cram commuter rail through the same (now much more politically powerful and affluent) area, especially if it meant destroying the centerpiece of the Beltline.

Also, the City of Atlanta wouldn't allow it and GDOT isn't stupid enough to try to run roughshod over them, nor do they have an interest in doing so.
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:50 PM
 
16,645 posts, read 29,360,549 times
Reputation: 7577
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
...

As much as I like the idea of the state finally caring enough to push for commuter rail, I can't say I see them caring enough to try and run rails through the East Side like that. To whoever is planning on it, I say that it'd be much more worth their time to try and get the railroads to work together to redesign Howel Y, and its approach tracks. A state-lead, public / private funded effort to redo that whole interchange would be far more beneficial to everyone than rebuilding the BeltLine for commuter rail.

^^^^^^
This.





http://tracktwentynine.blogspot.com/...tlanta_21.html
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,669,304 times
Reputation: 2284
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
Don't get me wrong. I understand the problems with trying to use Howel Y as it is, and how that generally makes this plan a problem, but I think that's a much more practical engineering problem than then political one that'll come from trying to turn the Eastside Trail back into rail.

I am not a track engineer, however, and accept that I can very well be wrong about this. At the very least, there appears to be room to build a parallel track for dedicated commuter rail that bypasses / is separate from the interchanges and crossovers. Furthermore, generally shorter and lighter commuter trains would probably fare better from aerials over / tunnels under such over-capacity junctions.
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:26 PM
 
16,645 posts, read 29,360,549 times
Reputation: 7577
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Don't get me wrong. I understand the problems with trying to use Howel Y as it is, and how that generally makes this plan a problem, but I think that's a much more practical engineering problem than then political one that'll come from trying to turn the Eastside Trail back into rail.

I am not a track engineer, however, and accept that I can very well be wrong about this. At the very least, there appears to be room to build a parallel track for dedicated commuter rail that bypasses / is separate from the interchanges and crossovers. Furthermore, generally shorter and lighter commuter trains would probably fare better from aerials over / tunnels under such over-capacity junctions.

Agreed.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,751,152 times
Reputation: 5702
Rebranding MARTA is a waste if money. Look at CCT's $300K spent on changing their brand to CobbLinc. MARTA is already a state-level agency, but can only operate in counties that have passed the sales tax.
As far as MattCW's proposal to run commuter trains along the ex-Inman Belt, that is nearly impossible. The neighborhoods, and businesses (PCM) that setup along the corridor would protest and throw all kinds of money at preventing the plan.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:20 AM
 
Location: City of Trees
1,061 posts, read 1,212,621 times
Reputation: 595
Instead of rebranding a nearly 40-year-old transit agency, people should rebrand their 40-year-old biases. When you get tired of being stuck in your cars with no options, MARTA will be waiting, as soon as you pay your share.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:58 AM
bu2
 
23,907 posts, read 14,695,847 times
Reputation: 12710
[quote=MattCW;42348179]
Wrong. The buses are at and above capacity which is impressive considering they are quite a bit slower than even driving, and far slower than rail service would be. So if anything, it proves that commuter rail makes LOTS of sense.

The comment was that the buses weren't full. If they are, you can run articulated buses or more frequent buses. Express buses using HOV/HOT lanes are VASTLY faster than rail which makes a bunch of stops. Not only that, but they can drop you off much closer to your destination. Further, their lower capacity means they have more frequent, convenient service. And if the route isn't working, you simply discontinue it and use the assets elsewhere. You need really large ridership numbers to justify rail over bus.

What??? You do realize that passenger trains and freight trains co-mingle all the time right? That's kind of how Amtrak operates. So it's actually far more appropriate and consistent to put passenger rail on freight tracks.

I was making fun of their arguments. Hence the smiley face. However, those silly arguments carried the day. And you missed what I was laughing about. They had rail for a century, long before there was a neighborhood, yet they thought rail was somehow inconsistent. It was ludicrous. And they seem to think light rail is somehow significantly different than heavy rail. Also ludicrous. The green line only runs 3 car trains.
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Atlanta - Midtown
749 posts, read 883,939 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East View Post
Instead of rebranding a nearly 40-year-old transit agency, people should rebrand their 40-year-old biases. When you get tired of being stuck in your cars with no options, MARTA will be waiting, as soon as you pay your share.
This x100
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