"How not to become Atlanta" (Savannah, Douglas: 2014, crime)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

I've commuted on 75, 400, 85 and 285. It's bad, but all the metro rankings show Atlanta isn't any worse off than places similarly sized like Houston or DFW. Atlanta traffic worse than Charlotte but we also have a few million more people on the road. Certain stretches like 285 can compete for worst stretch with many other places but overall as a metro area we're doing pretty good considering our size.

That's true, but you have to look at what those rankings measure-its delays vs. off peak around the whole city. Atlanta's off peak (with its limited arterial and freeway network) is much worse than DFW and Houston so its delays are relatively less. I've lived in all 3 cities. And its bad areas are much worse. DFW and Houston are worse in more directions (virtually all directions). Atlanta is really bad to the north and northeast but areas like I-20 west and I-85 south of the airport have very little delay. Also bad is I-75 in Henry County but you get delays 24 hours a day!!!! I almost never get through there without problems.

[demonta4]

It also takes Charlotte forever to build infrastructure. How long was 485 in construction. Is Independence Freeway even halfway done? What about a second light rail line(not streetcar, actual rail)? Are they building a park and trail system? Are they doing anything to make their city better for pedestrians?

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

Yep, people in a city without ANY heavy rail who will never GET heavy rail are criticizing a city that DOES have heavy rail because it doesn't go far enough ...

PRICELESS!

I agree....Charlotte is no real position to criticize Atlanta on the size and scope of its Heavy Rail Transit system when Charlotte (which has elected for Light Rail Transit instead of Heavy Rail Transit) has not been willing to make the same investment in high-capacity transit that Atlanta has made over the past 45 years.

Originally Posted by Newsboy

And just FYI: There is NO CITY IN THE COUNTRY that has heavy rail subway lines running 25 and 30 miles out into the suburbs: Not DC, not New York, not Chicago. They have COMMUTER TRAINS! That's really what we need to be concentratng on out to Gwinnett, Cobb, Henry, etc

You are right that most major urban high-capacity transit systems in the U.S. do not have HRT lines that operate as far away as 25-30 miles away from the urban core into the suburbs.

But there are 2 major urban high-capacity transit systems that do have HRT lines that operate (and are planned to operate) that far away from the urban core into the suburbs.

Both the D.C. Metrorail and BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) high-capacity transit systems (both regional/sub-regional HRT systems which MARTA was intended to be modeled after) have Heavy Rail Transit lines that operate as far away as 25 miles from the urban core into the suburbs.

The D.C. Metro system's Silver HRT Line currently operates to the Wiehle-Reston East Metro Station which is about 20 miles away from Downtown Washington D.C. The D.C. Metro's Silver HRT Line is also in the process of being expanded 11.5 more miles (by way of a new stop at Washington Dulles International Airport) to Ashburn in outer-suburban Loudoun County, Virginia where the now-increasingly moderate/progressive outer-suburban political scene has traditionally resembled the conservative staunchly anti-transit political scenes of outer-suburban metro Atlanta counties like Forsyth and Cherokee (and Cobb and Gwinnett in the past).

When the D.C. Metro Silver HRT Line is complete, it will be about 41 miles in length and operate out to the Ashburn area of Loudoun County, Virginia which is about 33 miles away from Downtown Washington D.C.

BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae HRT Line is over 55 miles in length operates out to the Pittsburg-Bay Point BART Station which is about 36 miles away from Downtown San Francisco (San Francisco's Financial District) which is the traditional focal point of the San Francisco Bay Area metro region which features multiple urban cores and hubs.

The BART Heavy Rail Transit system is notable because it was built as a regional HRT system that is intended to function almost like a regional commuter rail system of sorts but with Heavy Rail Transit technology....Which seems to be how MARTA was intended to function in the Atlanta region...as a regional or sub-regional commuter rail system that employs HRT technology.

Though a competitor like Charlotte should never be taken lightly, especially seeing as though they have been able to build themselves into a major financial center for the Southeastern U.S....A smaller metro like Charlotte likely will never function at the level of an Atlanta simply because it has chosen not to make the same high-capacity transit investments that Atlanta has made in MARTA HRT.

Not to mention that Charlotte (while it has a major airport at Charlotte-Douglas International Airport) has not invested in its airport at the level that Atlanta has at world-leading Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Charlotte also does not have the history as a leading city in the Civil Rights movement that Atlanta has neither does Charlotte have the same advantageous central location that Atlanta has.

Neither is Charlotte the site of its state capitol like Atlanta is, while Charlotte also has to compete with 2 other larger metro regions in North Carolina in Raleigh-Durham (the Triangle) and Greensboro/Winston-Salem (the Triad) while Atlanta is by far the dominant large major metro region in Georgia.

Needless to say, while Charlotte likely has little reason to fear becoming as large as Atlanta, Charlotte can still learn a lesson on how to proceed with growth in a wiser fashion moving forward.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by demonta4

It also takes Charlotte forever to build infrastructure. How long was 485 in construction. Is Independence Freeway even halfway done? What about a second light rail line(not streetcar, actual rail)? Are they building a park and trail system? Are they doing anything to make their city better for pedestrians?

I-485 was due to delays by the state, not the city. Light rail began expansion in 2013 (scheduled to be complete next year), the first leg of the streetcar line is up and running, and expanding parks and trails has been a success, particularly Little Sugar Creek Greenway. The city has also done well in overhauling several key streets to make them pedestrian friendly.

[Atlwarrior]

This is so duplicitous, I never seen so many articles from city talking about another city. To me it show great hypocrisy for a city who constantly say we are not trying to be Atlanta , but yet continue do so many comparisons.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I-485 was due to delays by the state, not the city. Light rail began expansion in 2013 (scheduled to be complete next year), the first leg of the streetcar line is up and running, and expanding parks and trails has been a success, particularly Little Sugar Creek Greenway. The city has also done well in overhauling several key streets to make them pedestrian friendly.

The trail says seems cool, don't really care about the streetcar (unless they have their own lane), not sure about the street thing because I hardly see anyone walking in Charlotte, you guys should get started on a second light rail line, expansions are good but it doesn't provide much coverage as you can only go in a straight line, What about Independence and it's businesses?

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I agree....Charlotte is no real position to criticize Atlanta on the size and scope of its Heavy Rail Transit system when Charlotte (which has elected for Light Rail Transit instead of Heavy Rail Transit) has not been willing to make the same investment in high-capacity transit that Atlanta has made over the past 45 years...A smaller metro like Charlotte likely will never function at the level of an Atlanta simply because it has chosen not to make the same high-capacity transit investments that Atlanta has made in MARTA HRT.

Well that's because the feds don't bankroll HRT systems like they used to; that's why none have been built from scratch anywhere in the country in 40 years or so. So it's not really about Charlotte failing to invest in HRT but it's simply not financially feasible for cities to do so anymore.

Neither is Charlotte the site of its state capitol like Atlanta is, while Charlotte also has to compete with 2 other larger metro regions in North Carolina in Raleigh-Durham (the Triangle) and Greensboro/Winston-Salem (the Triad) while Atlanta is by far the dominant large major metro region in Georgia.

I don't think not being a state capital is hindrance, nor is being in a state with other sizable metros. Miami, Houston, and DFW are great examples of that.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by demonta4

The trail says seems cool, don't really care about the streetcar (unless they have their own lane), not sure about the street thing because I hardly see anyone walking in Charlotte, you guys should get started on a second light rail line, expansions are good but it doesn't provide much coverage as you can only go in a straight line, What about Independence and it's businesses?

Yes Charlotte has been doing a pretty good job of embracing the 'complete streets' concept to an extent; East Blvd between South Blvd and Dilworth Rd W is a great example of that. Other streets have been beautified and/or been put on road diets. The Blue Line Extension is the next phase in LYNX construction so that's why it's currently under construction; the streetcar line currently provides east-west transit access, although it would be more beneficial if it had its own ROW. Independence has seen some progress but the transition to a more limited-access freeway type of thoroughfare means the end or relocation of some businesses along the corridor.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Atlwarrior

This is so duplicitous, I never seen so many articles from city talking about another city. To me it show great hypocrisy for a city who constantly say we are not trying to be Atlanta , but yet continue do so many comparisons.

Not all of those articles are coming from Charlotte.

[Atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Not all of those articles are coming from Charlotte.

Great point, that's true