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I just want rail from Cumberland into the city....geesh.
So do we, mate.
Now here's an idea... I know there are those who don't particularly like MARTA to waste resources and attention on designing for the future in countries that don't really want them, but given the political climate, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea after all. Here's what you do:
Start with what funds MARTA would be working with. Get the potential revenue from the hypothetical 1% sales tax. Use that to say,"with this much money, we can fund this many miles of rail, and this many ART routes and this many bus routes." Do the same with a 1.5% sales tax.
Then you make very priliminary maps of routes and lines. Show possible high capacity corridors, ART corridors, bus corridors, circulators, etc. Again, no promises, keep it conceptual. This would really only require a route planner or two, a graphic designer, and access to GDOT/ARC trip data.
Make these long range plans of how would you tackle Cobb, Gwinnett, I-285, etc. Where could MARTA HRT go, what about commuter rail, high-frequency bues, etc. Do this for the entire originally planned MARTA service area, and don't ignore the south side, but don't necessarily give them priority either. Maybe show what could change with shifted population.
Anyway, show these basic plans to as many people as you can. Publicize the hell out of them. If the citizens don't like them, so be it, don't push it, but if the citizens do like them, and the policing don't, then you can leverage that. Don't go so much on the attack, since you'll just bring retaliation, but use it to build a long-range regional plan that politicians can rally with.
Last edited by fourthwarden; 03-10-2016 at 05:29 PM..
Yeah. This is one area where I haven't agreed with MARTA's strategy in recent years. Honestly, they're not trying to sell transit to the Atlanta suburbs, with enticing brochures and websites and concept videos and potential official maps and studies and such. Why not? These are the things that get people excited, and get people in new areas of the region to petition their leaders to join up on the system, which when that happens then means you make all the marketing money involved right back, and then a ton. Marketing and sales is not a waste of resources, it's vital.
Because the leaders apparently never will go for transit on their own, you have to get grassroots organized public involvement to pressure them. How about a whole marketing team dedicated to selling the suburban folks of Cobb/Gwinnett/North Fulton, the different great possibilities of MARTA mass transit in their communities, and make it seem like a great value and a no brainer for a 1% tax or whatever. Also do the same for upping to 1.5% MARTA tax in the existing counties.
Organize. Petition. Protest. Etc. Pro-transit advocates, and even MARTA themselves just seem very nonchalant on it all.
You have to be careful, though. The more aggressive you are in your add campaign, the more ammo you give politicians and their vocal conservative base without necessarily charging the pro-transit base in the same way.
Any overt attempt to swing public opinion would be seen as an attack, and publicly treated as such. If MARTA only put up the regional vision, with backing from the ARC, and held off on the major publicity campaign (with the exception of areas already served. I.E. my billboards on the interstates ITP), it would be harder to claim an attack on the counties. Not only would MARTA be submitting a humble proposal for the future, but they'd be doing so with the blessing of the regional planning entity, which has been requested to be more involved (somehow, not sure how they COULD be) in these plans by politicians not wanting to side with MARTA, but who pay lip service to transit.
No, man. Attack. Why not? Rally the base and fuel them with plans and renderings and juicy droolworthy stuff. Get the majority on board. Who cares how inevitably angry the inevitably always-angry 35% Tea Party people are, if the 65% strongly support and vote yes, and a million resident county like Gwinnett joins MARTA, decades later than they should have?
No, man. Attack. Why not? Rally the base and fuel them with plans and renderings and juicy droolworthy stuff. Get the majority on board. Who cares how inevitably angry the inevitably always-angry 35% Tea Party people are, if the 65% strongly support and vote yes, and a million resident county like Gwinnett joins MARTA, decades later than they should have?
Because only 50% accepts the sales tax in Gwinnett. Much less in Cobb. Any major outspoken cry of the opposition has a good chance of killing that chance. The hard set other side may never like it, but just how vocal their response will be depends on just how hard you push. This is not to mention that you'll spook the politicians who still have a large swing of power.
You can't just charge in head first or else you'll hit a wall of political opposition. The harder you push, the stronger it holds.
I'd go in the completely opposite direction as that. Release 10 high quality, 5-minute videos, and 100 high quality station/TOD renderings, and 10 pages of detailed documents/facts/figures/options/designs/maps, idealizing all of the various potential.
Repeat said strategy every year, while the traffic jams get worse and worse, until we win.
Nobody's going to vote yes on some vague description, where they don't even know what services they're voting for, other than a raise in their taxes.
I don't agree with MARTA's outreach approach. They failed in North Fulton because they practically ignored the public, and only spoke with the politicians, who still didn't get on board. Their respectful approach failed miserably to expand any rail.
What you have to do to get transit in Georgia, is sell it well so that the moderate middle-road masses want it so badly, that the politicians are forced to ignore the extreme conservatives.
Now here's an idea... I know there are those who don't particularly like MARTA to waste resources and attention on designing for the future in countries that don't really want them, but given the political climate, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea after all. Here's what you do:
Start with what funds MARTA would be working with. Get the potential revenue from the hypothetical 1% sales tax. Use that to say,"with this much money, we can fund this many miles of rail, and this many ART routes and this many bus routes." Do the same with a 1.5% sales tax.
Then you make very priliminary maps of routes and lines. Show possible high capacity corridors, ART corridors, bus corridors, circulators, etc. Again, no promises, keep it conceptual. This would really only require a route planner or two, a graphic designer, and access to GDOT/ARC trip data.
Make these long range plans of how would you tackle Cobb, Gwinnett, I-285, etc. Where could MARTA HRT go, what about commuter rail, high-frequency bues, etc. Do this for the entire originally planned MARTA service area, and don't ignore the south side, but don't necessarily give them priority either. Maybe show what could change with shifted population.
Anyway, show these basic plans to as many people as you can. Publicize the hell out of them. If the citizens don't like them, so be it, don't push it, but if the citizens do like them, and the policing don't, then you can leverage that. Don't go so much on the attack, since you'll just bring retaliation, but use it to build a long-range regional plan that politicians can rally with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
Yeah. This is one area where I haven't agreed with MARTA's strategy in recent years. Honestly, they're not trying to sell transit to the Atlanta suburbs, with enticing brochures and websites and concept videos and potential official maps and studies and such. Why not? These are the things that get people excited, and get people in new areas of the region to petition their leaders to join up on the system, which when that happens then means you make all the marketing money involved right back, and then a ton. Marketing and sales is not a waste of resources, it's vital.
Because the leaders apparently never will go for transit on their own, you have to get grassroots organized public involvement to pressure them. How about a whole marketing team dedicated to selling the suburban folks of Cobb/Gwinnett/North Fulton, the different great possibilities of MARTA mass transit in their communities, and make it seem like a great value and a no brainer for a 1% tax or whatever. Also do the same for upping to 1.5% MARTA tax in the existing counties.
Organize. Petition. Protest. Etc. Pro-transit advocates, and even MARTA themselves just seem very nonchalant on it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden
You have to be careful, though. The more aggressive you are in your add campaign, the more ammo you give politicians and their vocal conservative base without necessarily charging the pro-transit base in the same way.
Any overt attempt to swing public opinion would be seen as an attack, and publicly treated as such. If MARTA only put up the regional vision, with backing from the ARC, and held off on the major publicity campaign (with the exception of areas already served. I.E. my billboards on the interstates ITP), it would be harder to claim an attack on the counties. Not only would MARTA be submitting a humble proposal for the future, but they'd be doing so with the blessing of the regional planning entity, which has been requested to be more involved (somehow, not sure how they COULD be) in these plans by politicians not wanting to side with MARTA, but who pay lip service to transit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
No, man. Attack. Why not? Rally the base and fuel them with plans and renderings and juicy droolworthy stuff. Get the majority on board. Who cares how inevitably angry the inevitably always-angry 35% Tea Party people are, if the 65% strongly support and vote yes, and a million resident county like Gwinnett joins MARTA, decades later than they should have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden
Because only 50% accepts the sales tax in Gwinnett. Much less in Cobb. Any major outspoken cry of the opposition has a good chance of killing that chance. The hard set other side may never like it, but just how vocal their response will be depends on just how hard you push. This is not to mention that you'll spook the politicians who still have a large swing of power.
You can't just charge in head first or else you'll hit a wall of political opposition. The harder you push, the stronger it holds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
I'd go in the completely opposite direction as that. Release 10 high quality, 5-minute videos, and 100 high quality station/TOD renderings, and 10 pages of detailed documents/facts/figures/options/designs/maps, idealizing all of the various potential.
Repeat said strategy every year, while the traffic jams get worse and worse, until we win.
Nobody's going to vote yes on some vague description, where they don't even know what services they're voting for, other than a raise in their taxes.
I don't agree with MARTA's outreach approach. They failed in North Fulton because they practically ignored the public, and only spoke with the politicians, who still didn't get on board. Their respectful approach failed miserably to expand any rail.
What you have to do to get transit in Georgia, is sell it well so that the moderate middle-road masses want it so badly, that the politicians are forced to ignore the extreme conservatives.
These are all good ideas and good points.
But one thing that we need to realize is that it is not MARTA's responsibility to market and or sell itself to a conservative transit-averse suburban electorate that does not like or want MARTA in their areas.
It is not the responsibility of urban progressives in Fulton and DeKalb counties to push transit service to an electorate of suburban, exurban and rural conservatives that distrusts, despises and often just outright hates anything that urban progressives are affiliated with, including (and especially) MARTA high-capacity transit service.
The responsibility of pushing high-capacity transit service to highly-skeptical and distrustful transit-averse suburbanites and exurbanites outside of Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton falls squarely on the big business types and their state government puppets who want transit expanded outside of MARTA's service area.
The lack of transit in Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties (and beyond) is NOT the problem of Central/South Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties where residents love and appreciate their transit service (MARTA).
The lack of transit in Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties (and beyond) where transit remains a hard sell is a Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett (and beyond) problem....And when Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett (and beyond) get ready to solve their transit-deficiency problem, they will solve it with the more-than-abundant political and financial resources they have.
Yeah. This is one area where I haven't agreed with MARTA's strategy in recent years. Honestly, they're not trying to sell transit to the Atlanta suburbs, with enticing brochures and websites and concept videos and potential official maps and studies and such. Why not? These are the things that get people excited, and get people in new areas of the region to petition their leaders to join up on the system, which when that happens then means you make all the marketing money involved right back, and then a ton. Marketing and sales is not a waste of resources, it's vital.
Because the leaders apparently never will go for transit on their own, you have to get grassroots organized public involvement to pressure them. How about a whole marketing team dedicated to selling the suburban folks of Cobb/Gwinnett/North Fulton, the different great possibilities of MARTA mass transit in their communities, and make it seem like a great value and a no brainer for a 1% tax or whatever. Also do the same for upping to 1.5% MARTA tax in the existing counties.
Organize. Petition. Protest. Etc. Pro-transit advocates, and even MARTA themselves just seem very nonchalant on it all.
Why should MARTA waste what little resources it has, from the citizens of Atlanta, Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton Counties on the research, studies, ads, etc.? As a current MARTA taxpayer I would not feel like it is a good use of our little funds, especially given the past several decades of anti-transit sentiment. This is something GRTA, ARC, and grassroots efforts in those counties should be doing.
I'd go in the completely opposite direction as that. Release 10 high quality, 5-minute videos, and 100 high quality station/TOD renderings, and 10 pages of detailed documents/facts/figures/options/designs/maps, idealizing all of the various potential.
Repeat said strategy every year, while the traffic jams get worse and worse, until we win.
Nobody's going to vote yes on some vague description, where they don't even know what services they're voting for, other than a raise in their taxes.
I don't agree with MARTA's outreach approach. They failed in North Fulton because they practically ignored the public, and only spoke with the politicians, who still didn't get on board. Their respectful approach failed miserably to expand any rail.
What you have to do to get transit in Georgia, is sell it well so that the moderate middle-road masses want it so badly, that the politicians are forced to ignore the extreme conservatives.
MARTA had grassroot effort groups like Advance Atlanta and MARTAArmy hold events in N Fulton to promote the expansion.
But one thing that we need to realize is that it is not MARTA's responsibility to market and or sell itself to a conservative transit-averse suburban electorate that does not like or want MARTA in their areas.
It is not the responsibility of urban progressives in Fulton and DeKalb counties to push transit service to an electorate of suburban, exurban and rural conservatives that distrusts, despises and often just outright hates anything that urban progressives are affiliated with, including (and especially) MARTA high-capacity transit service.
The responsibility of pushing high-capacity transit service to highly-skeptical and distrustful transit-averse suburbanites and exurbanites outside of Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton falls squarely on the big business types and their state government puppets who want transit expanded outside of MARTA's service area.
The lack of transit in Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties (and beyond) is NOT the problem of Central/South Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties where residents love and appreciate their transit service (MARTA).
The lack of transit in Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties (and beyond) where transit remains a hard sell is a Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett (and beyond) problem....And when Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett (and beyond) get ready to solve their transit-deficiency problem, they will solve it with the more-than-abundant political and financial resources they have.
This is why I said to present a (not really minimal, but certainly not massive push as primal said) regional vision without too much force. At least kill the thoughts that MARTA is not putting forth a regional vision, by providing a vision for the region. As I sa8d, d9n't go hard, but be ready to present the full 5 county plan for those who wish to see it. Give the grassroots something tangible to use.
While it may not be MARTA's responsibility to push transit in the adverse counties, it may be a bit of a necessity. It would be a way of getting in frontt of the politics and showing that MARTA CAN be the regional solution that politicians claim they want. If backed by the ARC (and maybe even the GDOT) you would begin to make politicians actually show who really wants transit ot not.
Emphasize the choices and range of options each countyear has with their tax and transit combinations. Let the people in those counties see what they could have, at a minimal cost to MARTA and the current tax payers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
Why should MARTA waste what little resources it has, from the citizens of Atlanta, Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton Counties on the research, studies, ads, etc.? As a current MARTA taxpayer I would not feel like it is a good use of our little funds, especially given the past several decades of anti-transit sentiment. This is something GRTA, ARC, and grassroots efforts in those counties should be doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
MARTA had grassroot effort groups like Advance Atlanta and MARTAArmy hold events in N Fulton to promote the expansion.
Gotta give the grassroots people something to rally behind. A unified MARTA 5 county plan would be just that.
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