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But what if someone was to buy in Arcado, Mountain Park, or Knight? All of them are in Parkview.
Is it really as either-or as you make it out to be? Would it be "not good" to suggest the other elementary schools?
The reason I'm saying this--it will benefit all of Parkview if all of the elementary school are well-regarded. If Camp Creek continues to get hyper-interest--and at the detriment of the other elementary schools, it will eventually have a negative effect on Parkview and Camp Creek in the long run.
Some may say overly-promoting Camp Creek (with slight slights to the other elementary schools), won't and shouldn't have any effect. But I'm getting old enough and have been around long enough to know that there's a good chance that it will happen.
Case in point: East Cobb and Sprayberry High
Growing up, the joke was (among Popesters, Lassiterians, and Waltonites) that Sprayberry was more redneck, etc., etc. It was relatively good fun since Sprayberry students were often our middle and elementary school peers. Also--Sprayberry still had growth and a high amount of upper-middle class interest through the late 90s. However, perception soon became reality, and Sprayberry is now seen as truly "less than" even though the area is nice and the school is still good. The result--there is much less upper-middle class interest and upper-middle infill home-building than there should be. And the perception builds on itself--scores slowly drop, and everything becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think you will understand based on past school discussions we have had.
Camp Creek is to Parkview, what Simpson ES is to Nocross. However, I will admit the difference with the remaining elementary schools is not near as extreme.
Camp Creek has no apartments, home prices run a bit higher and some of the largest homes in the district that were built in the '80s are there. There is just a tiny bit more wealth and the population is just a tiny bit more stable.
Granted it was a long time ago, but I went to Knight ES and my niece did (much more recently of course). We thought Knight ES was great and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone to go to Knight, Arcado, or Mountain Park. We had a good experience with my niece at Knight and shes now very much near the top of her class at Parkview now. However, we did notice subtle differences at Camp Creek when she moved there and most were positive.
What I think affected Knight was many years back a large chunk of what is Knight ES now, was zoned to the much weaker Berkmar cluster. Much of the old Knight ES district was zoned to Camp Creek and some of it to Brookwood. Those neighborhoods from Berkmar were already at lower price points and there is some multi-family housing in the mix. I think this is what accounts for these differences. End effect is Knight has to put more resources into ESOL and less into other things.
Generally if someone comes with a $400,000 budget to this area they will gravitate towards Camp Creek more and there are more options open to them. More of the housing that is similar to East Cobb and Dunwoody will be found in that area and a little bit in the Arcado district. This advice is just to help the OP out, not necessarily to say the other areas are bad.
I don't think it will have a negative impact on Parkview, in that it has been this way for 15+ years and I think Parkview is great. The differences are very small, compared to the ones found in Norcross.
Lastly it is worth noting Knight and Mountain Park are much smaller.
Arcado and Camp Creek have about 1,200 students each. Camp Creek just had a major expansion and will be taking on even more students next year with the redistricting. Mountain Park and Knight together have just a bit over 1300 students.
In many ways the prime area is the largest one and the weaker areas are the smaller ones and the demographics that make the schools rated slightly less desirable are just parts of the smallest schools.
I know Brookwood has its nuances too. Most people would love to be in any of the elementary schools, but a couple have a slightly better track record than the others.
With Sprayberry.... I don't think it was just merely a perception thing and much of it is a sought after area. I admittedly don't know the Cobb nuances, but I can apply many of the ways I analyze demographics as I do in Gwinnett in similar ways.
Sprayberry has the Town Center Mall area, large parts of Barrett Parkway and parts of Cobb Pkwy in its district. There are a high amount of apartments and townhomes in the area. It just makes the school population be more socio-econimocally diverse, even more so than the issues I'm spotting out in the Parkview district. These socio-economic differences lead to test scores to be diluted a small bit when averaging the school's whole population.
This is a huge issue in Gwinnett. Much of Gwinnett's 'premium areas' are along the Chattahoochee near Johns Creek, but they also have to share close proximity to I-85 and tons of apartments that zoning can't avoid. East of I-85 it is a much larger area and it is a weaker district near I-85 (Berkmar/Meadowcreek) and stronger ones further from I-85 and all the apartments.
It is also worth noting the districts in Cobb to the east and south of Sprayberry are also premium commuter areas with easy access to Perimeter Center and/or Cumberland (and to a smaller extent Alpharetta/Northpoint). I think Pope and Walton, in particular, get a very location advantage... better commutes, but far away from the apartments and more country clubs... not to mention Walton's riverfront properties.
Ok so I've been researching the recommended areas and have a couple more questions until I can come into town and drive around for myself. Parkview and Brookwood sound good, but have around 3,000 students! That sounds really big to me. Does anyone have experience at these schools? Do the teachers actually know the kids or at that large, are kids just numbers? I do like the housing options and prices in those areas though!
I graduated from Brookwood 6 years ago. My parents bought a house back in August 98 and are still there. I did Craig > Crews> Brookwood. My sister did Crews > Brookwood (she's 6 years older than me). The school is huge. One of the largest in the state but I think it was fine. I can't really compare it to smaller schools since I never went to one. What helps is that the faculty (from administration to the teachers) care a lot about the school and its student body. They take a lot of pride in being one of the best in the county and state. For several years they were the top scorer in the county (excluding the specialized STEM school). It's a school where the teachers want to teach and be involved and I had many more good teachers than bad ones. It's, of course, easier for a student to connect with their teachers if the student is more outgoing but it's not a requirement.
Thanks again for all of the great advice! I love the housing stock I've seen online so far in the Parkview and Brookwood districts. Question...where would one shop out there? Is there an outdoor shopping mall like The Avenues, etc? Are there any restaurants worth visiting nearby? I don't know the area at all. Also, is it a concern that it's close to Tucker and Stone Mountain? I think those areas have gone down in safety since we lived there.
I'm still curious if anyone knows anything about Dunwoody's middle school too.
Thanks again for all of the great advice! I love the housing stock I've seen online so far in the Parkview and Brookwood districts. Question...where would one shop out there? Is there an outdoor shopping mall like The Avenues, etc? Are there any restaurants worth visiting nearby? I don't know the area at all.
There is a MAJOR shopping area along a two-mile stretch of Georgia Highway 124 (locally known as Scenic Highway) on the north side of Snellville which includes many major big-box retailers and a major outdoor shopping mall in "The Shoppes at Webb Gin" (formerly "The Avenues at Webb Gin"). The Shoppes at Webb Gin :: 1350 Scenic Highway, Snellville, GA. 30078 :: 770.978.5692
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal transplant
Also, is it a concern that it's close to Tucker and Stone Mountain? I think those areas have gone down in safety since we lived there.
The highly-regarded Parkwood and Brookwood clusters experience very little (if any) spillover from any crime that might occur in the Tucker and Stone Mountain areas.
That's because there are very few apartment/multi-family housing complexes in the Parkwood cluster and even fewer apartment/multi-family housing complexes in the Brookwood cluster that exist to attract a large transient population to those areas.
The housing stock in the Parkwood and Brookwood areas continues to be of a very high quality....The housing stock in those areas (which consists overwhelmingly of detached single-family homes) are priced high enough to keep out the riff-raff but low enough not to price out families with stable middle incomes.
Thanks again for all of the great advice! I love the housing stock I've seen online so far in the Parkview and Brookwood districts. Question...where would one shop out there? Is there an outdoor shopping mall like The Avenues, etc? Are there any restaurants worth visiting nearby? I don't know the area at all. Also, is it a concern that it's close to Tucker and Stone Mountain? I think those areas have gone down in safety since we lived there.
I'm still curious if anyone knows anything about Dunwoody's middle school too.
Many thanks!!
The main shopping area is at 124 & Ronald Reagan Pkwy just north of US78.
There is everything most need short of a mall.
There is an old "The Avenue at" Webb Gin. It was actually sold off and I believe it is now "The Shoppes" at Webb Gin. It is a decently nice development.
It is much closer to Brookwood. For those in the Parkview area you are equidistant from several shopping areas, but I would say most drive up to 124.
Other options are Tucker is really close by, Gwinnett Place Mall area, and there are some scattered stores along US78 near Park Place and along US29 for run of the mill stuff, but the nicer stores are near 124.
On occasion I have driven to the Forum right past Norcross, but I tend to not do that much from traffic crossing I-85.
I currently live really close to the Dekalb Co. line and we have no worries about being near Tucker or Stone Mountain whatsoever. If anything the the new housing development values are inching up, not down.
It is important to note that Tucker is actually a much nicer area than it is given credit for. Most people are just burned out from Dekalb Co Schools. Personally, I would pass on Tucker myself... I just wouldn't put it in the same ballpark as Stone Mountain by a wide margin. It is actually considerably nicer.
The other important note is Parkview borders an area on the Dekalb Co. side between Tucker and Stone Mountain called Smokerise. It is/was Dekalb County's "rural estate" area. It is a very low-density area and it is an area that is hillier than most. The county a while back created it trying to cut escalating costs of services (ie. sewer), while maintaining wealth in the county. Now I must admit schools in this area went down hill a bit and the area is dominated by empty-nesters, but it is actually a very nice affluent area. Home values go up, not down crossing over into Smoke rise. I also suspect private school usage drastically increases in the Smokerise area. If someone wants to live on a really large hilly, tree-y lot with a average commute to the city and can't afford the more expensive spread out parts of Buckhead, it is actually a place they will look. I also suspect it is where many of the business owners of the places in the industrial parks around Tucker live. It is more of a high-end area with a small country club and not what people think of when they hear Stone Mountain.
Smoke rise is also insulated from the north by railroad tracks, insulated with no street connections to the west from some large industrial parks, and it is insulated from the south by US78. There is one main connection going in and out of the area, which is Hugh Howell Rd.
From my point of view, it feels like we are bordered by a really nice, quiet area.
Now once you go further south towards Memorial Drive, west to Mountain industrial, or into the town area of Tucker... there are a -ton- of apartments and this is what has heavily affected schools in this part of Dekalb.
Stone Mountain city (proper) is actually very charming... and very small. It actually isn't that bad at all, although the schools are bad. Many people solidly middle and upper middle class, particularly among the Baby Booomer generation, still drive into town there to eat, go to a cafe, and there is a small community theater some people enjoy. There is a really unique German-themed Restaurant/Tavern/Garden there.
Most of the problem Stone Mountain has is a huge amount of apartments along Memorial Drive, Mountain Industrial, and they continue all the way to Clarkston. They are aging and lost their luster and have some very cheap rents and the socio-economic drag on the shopping in that corridor and on the schools is heavily affected. If you drive down Memorial Drive you will see an old 50s-70s era suburban shopping strip that isn't what it use to be...
The town itself is great, but small... and the schools make it a bad place to buy into with a family.. but the small town center is still great.
Now the restaurants in the Lilburn and Brookwood/Parkview area are excellent. The reason is because everything exists. You have you're trendier higher cost upscale restaurants with better food and service hidden away, you have the typical chain restaurants along US78 and 124. You have all the typical strip mall pop-up spots. You have the small neighborhood town-center grill and pub places. You also have a huge variety of authentic ethnic goods, especially going north into Lilburn or towards Gwinnett Place.
Parkview and Brookwood are a nice middle to upper middle class area, but Gwinnett as a whole is a very diverse melting pot with many immigrants. The traditional black-white only Southern thing does not exist here. This have heavily impacted some of the restaurants and dining options you can find driving around.
Now the caveat to all of this... I will admit it is a spread out low-density area. You will have to learn to find every thing and seek things out on Yelp and google maps and when I drive up to "The Avenue" it is a 15 min drive for me being on the intown-side of the Parkview area.
After hours (non-commute hours), it is also really fast and easy to get to Decatur if I want the town center pubs or the more upbeat hole in the wall entertainment.
Sorry for the long post... I type/talk to much, admittedly. One last thing, if you ever did visit the area (or used google street view) take US78 east and get off at the Hugh Howell Exit, turn right onto Lilburn-Stone Mountain Rd and then Right onto Old Stone Mountain Rd. This road becomes Five Forks and goes right up through the middle of the Parkview/Brookwood area. When you first get off US78 and make those turns, you're in that Smokerise area of Dekalb County. I think that will alleviate any fears of proximity to Stone Mountain.
It actually feels weird to me, because it is one of the few places you get off the freeway and everything is quiet and there aren't many businesses. It actually feels sort of rural/mountain retreat-like.
Now if you take US78 all the way into Gwinnett, you will see all the typical day-to-day business along main arterial roads like a typical place.
Ok, good.
I see your point, and I don't really disagree, but, I think there is a difference between the elementary schools, the OP can easily afford to own a nice home anywhere in the school zone, and I am giving them advice, so what should I say?
That said, currently, I would be very comfortable sending my kids to any elementary school in the Parkview school zone. Mountain Park is probably the elementary school that lags most in the cluster, and really any parent with kids in an "up-and-coming" City of Atlanta neighborhood would be doing my "Parkview Happy Dance(TM)" (see previous post) if their school was close to Mountain Park Elementary's level tomorrow. I just sold a rental property in Mountain Park, and the previous tenants had nothing but glowing things to say about the school, especially when compared to their previous school located in Norcross
This is good to hear.
However, when reading the posts from you and cwkimbro it can be interpreted as "either-or." I just think it is important to mention the virtues of the other elementary schools as well, so a "situation" is not created.
You know how fickle and sensational things can get in Atlanta. (Overly-promoting Camp Creek can be interpreted as "I read somewhere to avoid Mountain Park, Knight, and Arcado--but Camp Creek should be OK.")
Ok so I've been researching the recommended areas and have a couple more questions until I can come into town and drive around for myself. Parkview and Brookwood sound good, but have around 3,000 students! That sounds really big to me. Does anyone have experience at these schools? Do the teachers actually know the kids or at that large, are kids just numbers? I do like the housing options and prices in those areas though!
Also, we're still interested in the first mentioned areas (Dunwoody, Pope HS and Centennial HS) because of our family and friends on the north side. I don't want to be too far from them if we are finally going to live in the same city again after 20 years. Jobs can change, but their locations probably won't. So, does anyone have experience with the Dunwoody schools? I'm interested in the two Dunwoody charter elementaries more than Austin and Vanderlyn. However, do they have lotteries to get in? Finally, I've read bad reviews of the middle school but you never know if that was just one disgruntled soul. I'd love to hear any experiences y'all have.
Thanks so much! Your input has been invaluable!
1. I do think the Parkview Cluster and Brookwood Cluster are excellent options for you, as suggested.
2. If you want something similar to Parkview/Brookwood, but you are concerned about school size, you need to seriously consider the Union Grove Cluster and Ola Cluster of East Henry County. Easy commute to south Decatur and great+smaller schools. Union Grove/Ola are the Parkview/Brookwood of the southeast side of Metro Atlanta.
3. If you are really concerned about being close to family, then the Dunwoody Cluster is a good choice. Kingsley Elementary and Chestnut Elementary are great schools.
I think you will understand based on past school discussions we have had.
Camp Creek is to Parkview, what Simpson ES is to Nocross. However, I will admit the difference with the remaining elementary schools is not near as extreme.
Camp Creek has no apartments, home prices run a bit higher and some of the largest homes in the district that were built in the '80s are there. There is just a tiny bit more wealth and the population is just a tiny bit more stable.
Granted it was a long time ago, but I went to Knight ES and my niece did (much more recently of course). We thought Knight ES was great and wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone to go to Knight, Arcado, or Mountain Park. We had a good experience with my niece at Knight and shes now very much near the top of her class at Parkview now. However, we did notice subtle differences at Camp Creek when she moved there and most were positive.
What I think affected Knight was many years back a large chunk of what is Knight ES now, was zoned to the much weaker Berkmar cluster. Much of the old Knight ES district was zoned to Camp Creek and some of it to Brookwood. Those neighborhoods from Berkmar were already at lower price points and there is some multi-family housing in the mix. I think this is what accounts for these differences. End effect is Knight has to put more resources into ESOL and less into other things.
Generally if someone comes with a $400,000 budget to this area they will gravitate towards Camp Creek more and there are more options open to them. More of the housing that is similar to East Cobb and Dunwoody will be found in that area and a little bit in the Arcado district. This advice is just to help the OP out, not necessarily to say the other areas are bad.
I don't think it will have a negative impact on Parkview, in that it has been this way for 15+ years and I think Parkview is great. The differences are very small, compared to the ones found in Norcross.
Lastly it is worth noting Knight and Mountain Park are much smaller.
Arcado and Camp Creek have about 1,200 students each. Camp Creek just had a major expansion and will be taking on even more students next year with the redistricting. Mountain Park and Knight together have just a bit over 1300 students.
In many ways the prime area is the largest one and the weaker areas are the smaller ones and the demographics that make the schools rated slightly less desirable are just parts of the smallest schools.
I know Brookwood has its nuances too. Most people would love to be in any of the elementary schools, but a couple have a slightly better track record than the others.
With Sprayberry.... I don't think it was just merely a perception thing and much of it is a sought after area. I admittedly don't know the Cobb nuances, but I can apply many of the ways I analyze demographics as I do in Gwinnett in similar ways.
Sprayberry has the Town Center Mall area, large parts of Barrett Parkway and parts of Cobb Pkwy in its district. There are a high amount of apartments and townhomes in the area. It just makes the school population be more socio-econimocally diverse, even more so than the issues I'm spotting out in the Parkview district. These socio-economic differences lead to test scores to be diluted a small bit when averaging the school's whole population.
This is a huge issue in Gwinnett. Much of Gwinnett's 'premium areas' are along the Chattahoochee near Johns Creek, but they also have to share close proximity to I-85 and tons of apartments that zoning can't avoid. East of I-85 it is a much larger area and it is a weaker district near I-85 (Berkmar/Meadowcreek) and stronger ones further from I-85 and all the apartments.
It is also worth noting the districts in Cobb to the east and south of Sprayberry are also premium commuter areas with easy access to Perimeter Center and/or Cumberland (and to a smaller extent Alpharetta/Northpoint). I think Pope and Walton, in particular, get a very location advantage... better commutes, but far away from the apartments and more country clubs... not to mention Walton's riverfront properties.
I see your point at the beginning part of your response, but it is important to be careful. It can easily be interpreted differently (see my response to jeoff's post above).
If you don't think it will have a negative impact on Parkview, that is good to hear. Be sure to promote the virtues of the other elementary schools as well. {A smile each for Knight, Mountain Park, and Arcado}
About Sprayberry, I can write forever about East Cobb nuances, but it is definitely more to it than just containing the Town Center area. Yes, there are more apartments/townhomes, but the population from the Town Center area is not that large and doesn't overwhelm the district like you would think (this is not the case for Wheeler, for example).
Perception is a major part of it. Sprayberry also suffers because it shares long borders with Lassiter, Pope, and Walton. It is often unfairly compared--if Sprayberry was located in West Cobb (with the same demographics and neighborhood make up) it would be seen more favorably. This is how Hillgrove benefits. Hillgrove and Sprayberry have remarkably similar demographics--but Hillgrove is seen as the ultimate alternative to next-door McEachern if Harrison is not an option. Luckily for the district, Hillgrove is lumped with Harrison when talking about West Cobb high schools.
And remember, Sprayberry is very well-positioned for jobs in the Vinings/Cumberland area, intown Marietta, and Barrett--even Downtown Atlanta.
Thanks again for all of the great advice! I love the housing stock I've seen online so far in the Parkview and Brookwood districts. Question...where would one shop out there? Is there an outdoor shopping mall like The Avenues, etc? Are there any restaurants worth visiting nearby? I don't know the area at all. Also, is it a concern that it's close to Tucker and Stone Mountain? I think those areas have gone down in safety since we lived there.
I'm still curious if anyone knows anything about Dunwoody's middle school too.
Many thanks!!
1. I think you visit Peachtree Charter Middle School in Dunwoody. I would reach out to involved parents:
The Shoppes at Webb Gin is on the eastern border of the Brookwood district, and, like kimbro said, 15 minutes from the farthest reaches of the Parkview district to the west (central and eastern parts of Parkview are closer than 15 minutes to Webb Gin, et al.)
There is a MAJOR shopping area along a two-mile stretch of Georgia Highway 124 (locally known as Scenic Highway) on the north side of Snellville which includes many major big-box retailers and a major outdoor shopping mall in "The Shoppes at Webb Gin" (formerly "The Avenues at Webb Gin"). The Shoppes at Webb Gin :: 1350 Scenic Highway, Snellville, GA. 30078 :: 770.978.5692
The highly-regarded Parkwood and Brookwood clusters experience very little (if any) spillover from any crime that might occur in the Tucker and Stone Mountain areas.
That's because there are very few apartment/multi-family housing complexes in the Parkwood cluster and even fewer apartment/multi-family housing complexes in the Brookwood cluster that exist to attract a large transient population to those areas.
The housing stock in the Parkwood and Brookwood areas continues to be of a very high quality....The housing stock in those areas (which consists overwhelmingly of detached single-family homes) are priced high enough to keep out the riff-raff but low enough not to price out families with stable middle incomes.
Yes, good information for the OP.
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So, does anyone have experience with the Dunwoody schools? I'm interested in the two Dunwoody charter elementaries more than Austin and Vanderlyn. However, do they have lotteries to get in? Finally, I've read bad reviews of the middle school but you never know if that was just one disgruntled soul. I'd love to hear any experiences y'all have.
