Bloomberg Businessweek: The Braves Play Taxpayers Better Than They Play Baseball (subsidized, manufacturing)

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by primaltech

So thoroughly and eloquently put, as usual. I appreciate your post so much. Everything you said is correct.

My only point is that we need to all try to meet in the middle, and give this thing a fair shot. It's fine to disagree with the merits of the Braves deal or with the deal itself, but we're going to need more than 9 months of a not even fully-constructed yet development, to determine if it's been a success or not, in terms of net return. And Cobb's strategy on dealing with the county's budget deficit (a strategy and a general situation which I don't like at all) is a separate issue.

Like, how much revenue is that massive nice Omni hotel going to bring in for the county, over the next few decades? Thing just opened like last week.

That's a good point that its going to take more than 9 months to determine if the Braves' SunTrust Park/Battery development is going to be a success.

That is also a good point that all sides need to meet in the middle to give the Braves' stadium and mixed-use development deal a fair shot.

...And the Braves' stadium and mixed-use development deal is getting a fair shot because there is no other choice for all parties involved but to give it a fair shot at this point in time.

Though, with how much public money (how many hundreds of millions of taxpayers' dollars) that Cobb County government spent on acquiring the Braves out of the county's budget, the county's budget deficit is going to be an ongoing issue that is going to generate much criticism of the stadium deal both from within and from outside of the county.

It obviously may not be and will not be pleasant for many Cobb County residents (for whom the new Major League Baseball stadium and adjoining large-scale mixed-use development may be a point of pride about their home county), but having the high-profile status of being the home of a new Major League Baseball stadium during a time when the county government is having significant fiscal issues after the somewhat controversial way that the stadium deal came about, is going to generate much continued criticism.

...And the only way that the intense criticism likely will abate is for the stadium deal and adjoining mixed-use development to be shown to be a definitive winner and for the Braves baseball team to start winning games at a significantly higher clip and contend for division and World Series titles.

Until the stadium and mixed-use development is shown to be an unquestioned winner and until the team starts winning many more games on the field (at least over .500, but preferably 90+ games and division titles) on a consistent basis, the criticism is likely to continue and possibly even intensify if Cobb County government continues to tread water financially.

And the intense criticism is something that comes with having a major league professional sports franchise play within one's municipal jurisdiction because of the massive sums of public money that is often required to support a pro sports franchise financially.

With its acquisition of the Atlanta Braves back in 2013, Cobb County basically entered into the big leagues, taking on issues of public finance of private sports franchises that other major cities and heavily-populated urban jurisdictions (like the City of Atlanta) have been grappling with for decades.

[primaltech]

As far as it being a winner, besides the baseball and team management/ownership end of it (which is hugely important), IMO the other 2 keys are going to be:

1. Get mass transit to the stadium from Midtown and OTP suburbs, as quickly as possible. (And maybe also from Perimeter)

2. Expand, invest, develop as much as possible. Capitalize on that 285 pedestrian bridge from the Galleria, and develop/re-redevelop heavily in that immediate area east of 41, on both sides of 285. As densely as possible.

It's a walkable island in the middle of non-walkable suburbia. But that island's area at least can be grown, and connected with Metro Atlanta's other walkable urban nodes, via rail to Midtown and elsewhere.

If all that happens, then I can see that area being the main launching point, connecting the rest of Atlanta with Cobb. Like the bridge. Like a true edge city.

Then, someday we can look back and say, yeah we probably spent too much public money on that stadium, but it kick-started a new era of growth for our county, and for this corner of the metro.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Leave us not forget that the city of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism. That continued well up into the 1960s and many would argue that elements of it are still present. Atlanta bitterly fought integration and refused to allow black students to attend Atlanta public schools until nearly a decade after the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Atlanta lagged behind many other cities and refused to allow blacks to eat at white restaurants or stay in white hotels, go to white parks, or even be treated at white hospitals.

Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.

The Peyton Road Wall

In December 1962, Mayor Ivan Allen Jr. ordered barricades to be built across two Atlanta streets to discourage black citizens from purchasing homes in an adjacent all-white neighborhood.

Atlanta's "Berlin Wall" - Atlanta Magazine

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The Peyton Road Wall


Atlanta's "Berlin Wall" - Atlanta Magazine

Yep, that and a whole lot more. Even after Rosa Parks helped desegregate the Montgomery, AL bus system in 1955, the city of Atlanta fought on for several additional years. It wasn't until a federal court ruling in 1959 that the ATL finally allowed black folks to ride the bus on the same basis as whites.

The city of Atlanta also produced the bombing of the Jewish Temple with 50 sticks of dynamite. In 2009 city of Atlanta police raided a gay bar with a SWAT team that handcuffed the patrons and forced them to lie face down on the floor. In 2007 Atlanta police handcuffed a visiting professor and threw him to the ground for alleged jaywalking. In 1989 it was revealed that prominent city of Atlanta banks were still engaging in redlining. And the list goes on.

In short, it's hard to justify putting the city of Atlanta on a high moral pedestal while condemning Cobb as backward and reactionary.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Leave us not forget that the city of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism. That continued well up into the 1960s and many would argue that elements of it are still present. Atlanta bitterly fought integration and refused to allow black students to attend Atlanta public schools until nearly a decade after the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Atlanta lagged behind many other cities and refused to allow blacks to eat at white restaurants or stay in white hotels, go to white parks, or even be treated at white hospitals.

Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.

The Heart of Atlanta Motel v. The United States was a seminal Supreme Court case from that era. The motel operator argued that the US government did not have the right to enforce the Civil Rights Act's provisions on private players - the motel would not accept black guests. The Court ruled that the Constitution's Commerce Clause gave the federal government the power to do so, as the motel catered to interstate traffic, and, thus, interstate commerce.

Interesting and hugely important case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_..._United_States

[DJDeadParrot]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.

B2R made no such suggestion in the post you were responding to.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot

B2R made no such suggestion in the post you were responding to.

No, he certainly didn't and I'm sorry if my post suggested that. Clumsy quoting on my part.

However, others have many times blasted Cobb for being backwards and reactionary, and they have often cited Cobb's vote against MARTA as evidence of that.

[primaltech]

Cobb voters rejected MARTA in 1965. That was the only vote in history that I'm aware of.

Pretty much everyone who voted in that referendum is now either dead, or an elderly senior citizen, or no longer lives in the county. And the county's current population is now 7x larger. Was in the 100,000's at that time.

And even many of those people voted yes.

Therefore, 99.9% of us in Cobb did not reject MARTA. Stated for the record.

[primaltech]

Also they didn't even hold it on a presidential election or even a midterm. I wonder what the voter turnout was in 1965.

[hilltop180]

Just general thoughts on the stadium. So far I love the Battery. It's a great place to go on a non-game weekend day. There are several restaurant options and it's fun to walk around. The pedestrian bridge is cool but they don't let people use any of the parking on that side of 285 for games.