MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: tax, bus)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by fieldm

"Mullinax also said the city has not reached a final decision on whether to go for an additional .25 or an additional .50 of a penny sales tax for a five-year transportation referendum. A quarter penny likely allow the city to acquire all the land needed to complete the BeltLine, and half-penny would allow the city to build out the trails on the newly-acquired property.
But some members of the City Council have expressed concern of Atlanta reaching 9 percent cap for sales taxes. They also are concerned about whether Atlanta would have the capacity to invest all the new revenue."

Would THE CITY OF ATLANTA RESIDENTS like to have an additional .25 or an additional .50?

Well, the people get to vote on the tax, so the people do get to choose if they want a tax or not, just not the amount. If there was a ranked voting system in place, then yeah, it could be done with a few different choices, but a simple majority forces only a yes or no.


So, with a .25% additional city sales tax to go with the .5% MARTA sales tax increase, we get the property of the BeltLine, but not the trail. So, we could build all the transit, but not the trail to go with it, which might impact how useful the stops and stations are at interacting with the local neighborhoods / streets / businesses etc. The TAD could pay for the trail, but that is a lagging revenue source, and it would take some time to get the funding secured. Then again, the time it takes to get the trains installed might be enough to fund the trail.

With a .5% additional city sales tax to go with the .5% MARTA sales tax increase, we get the property of the BeltLine and the trail itself. That may help with improving connections to transit, but if the TAD money would take up the burden, then I am inclined to say that the money would be better spent on a city-wide (or as far as you can get) sidewalk repair, to compliment the infrastructure bonds from a couple of years ago. My question is, how much money, if any, do we save by building the trail and transit at the same time?

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Proposed MARTA sales tax in Atlanta holds promise for region - SaportaReport

Still bewildered. Is any of this making a lick of sense to anyone else?

Atlanta, not MARTA, owns and operates the existing 2.7 mile streetcar infrastructure and assets and vehicles (and VMF) in Downtown, correct? But, MARTA will own and operate extensions of that line, and the the new Atlanta Streetcar lines identified in the city's master streetcar plan, and the streetcar on the Beltline?

It'll only make sense if City of Atlanta sells the existing Atlanta Streetcar system to MARTA, letting them totally own and handle it all. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Well, the people get to vote on the tax, so the people do get to choose if they want a tax or not, just not the amount. If there was a ranked voting system in place, then yeah, it could be done with a few different choices, but a simple majority forces only a yes or no.


So, with a .25% additional city sales tax to go with the .5% MARTA sales tax increase, we get the property of the BeltLine, but not the trail. So, we could build all the transit, but not the trail to go with it, which might impact how useful the stops and stations are at interacting with the local neighborhoods / streets / businesses etc. The TAD could pay for the trail, but that is a lagging revenue source, and it would take some time to get the funding secured. Then again, the time it takes to get the trains installed might be enough to fund the trail.

With a .5% additional city sales tax to go with the .5% MARTA sales tax increase, we get the property of the BeltLine and the trail itself. That may help with improving connections to transit, but if the TAD money would take up the burden, then I am inclined to say that the money would be better spent on a city-wide (or as far as you can get) sidewalk repair, to compliment the infrastructure bonds from a couple of years ago. My question is, how much money, if any, do we save by building the trail and transit at the same time?

True. If there are notable savings by building the trail and transit at the same time maybe that is what should be done.

But if we do that, what does the Beltline TAD fund? I guess it could focus on things like parks and housing.

If that happens we would probably see the majority of the Beltline vision completed within 5 years and all of it concluded within 10.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

It'll only make sense if City of Atlanta sells the existing Atlanta Streetcar system to MARTA, letting them totally own and handle it all. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

Yes, that is my expectation and interpretation of Parker's comment.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Still bewildered. Is any of this making a lick of sense to anyone else?

Atlanta, not MARTA, owns and operates the existing 2.7 mile streetcar infrastructure and assets and vehicles (and VMF) in Downtown, correct? But, MARTA will own and operate extensions of that line, and the the new Atlanta Streetcar lines identified in the city's master streetcar plan, and the streetcar on the Beltline?

It'll only make sense if City of Atlanta sells the existing Atlanta Streetcar system to MARTA, letting them totally own and handle it all. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

We're all waiting until more details come out, just like you. To me, it sounds like the city will be handing over the operations, at least, to MARTA. They may even be handing over the system. As more gets solidifies, more will be made clear.

MARTA being the ones building the stuff might be an issue, given how much trouble the city had with telecom and utilities companies last time. MARTA must pay for relocations, even in public rights of way, while the city doesn't have to.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yes, that is my expectation and interpretation of Parker's comment.

If so, that would be AWESOME.

That would lend itself to the Atlanta Streetcar becoming a legit MARTA transit system, as opposed to a City of Atlanta downtown tourist gimmick/amusement ride.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yes, that is my expectation and interpretation of Parker's comment.

Originally Posted by primaltech

If so, that would be AWESOME.

That would lend itself to the Atlanta Streetcar becoming a legit MARTA transit system, as opposed to a City of Atlanta downtown tourist gimmick/amusement ride.

I don't think the city will sell the streetcar, but simply hand it over. It wouldn't make sense, to me, to use taxes, to pay something back, that was paid with taxes in the first place.


As for the fares, lowering them, or removing them until the next expansions open up would be okay to me, but once the next phase does open, I'd like to see them reinstated as a standard MARTA fare. This should be easy enough if MARTA takes over the whole thing.


Treat it just like the rest of the system: $2.50 to get on, go as far as you need, then 1 free transfer to any other route.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I don't think the city will sell the streetcar, but simply hand it over. It wouldn't make sense, to me, to use taxes, to pay something back, that was paid with taxes in the first place.

They will probably sell it. They need to keep their books even. For example, MARTA just sold CoA some land for PATH 400: "The city agreed to fork over $176,000 to MARTA for the land, which will allow PATH400 users to one day travel from Miami Circle to the back of Lenox Square's property"

Buckhead's PATH400 Trail Scores Another Victory - Curbed Atlanta

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

As for the fares, lowering them, or removing them until the next expansions open up would be okay to me, but once the next phase does open, I'd like to see them reinstated as a standard MARTA fare. This should be easy enough if MARTA takes over the whole thing.


Treat it just like the rest of the system: $2.50 to get on, go as far as you need, then 1 free transfer to any other route.

Agreed they should combine the pricing into the MARTA system. But I am hoping with all these new modes (streetcar / commuter rail) coming online and things like in-App fares MARTA starts to implement zone or distance-based fare pricing. Going a couple stops on a bus or streetcar should not cost the same as taking commuter rail from an exurb to the airport.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

They will probably sell it. They need to keep their books even. For example, MARTA just sold CoA some land for PATH 400: "The city agreed to fork over $176,000 to MARTA for the land, which will allow PATH400 users to one day travel from Miami Circle to the back of Lenox Square's property"

Buckhead's PATH400 Trail Scores Another Victory - Curbed Atlanta



Agreed they should combine the pricing into the MARTA system. But I am hoping with all these new modes (streetcar / commuter rail) coming online and things like in-App fares MARTA starts to implement zone or distance-based fare pricing. Going a couple stops on a bus or streetcar should not cost the same as taking commuter rail from an exurb to the airport.

Atlanta should probably pay MARTA to take it off their hands.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

True. If there are notable savings by building the trail and transit at the same time maybe that is what should be done.

But if we do that, what does the Beltline TAD fund? I guess it could focus on things like parks and housing.

If that happens we would probably see the majority of the Beltline vision completed within 5 years and all of it concluded within 10.

We could see the TAD shift to, as you said, parks and affordable housing. Maybe, if there's really a ton of TAD funding left, we could use it to do neighborhood improvement projects within the TAD areas? Let the NPUs pick projects that they feel are needed, and fund those with the TAD, for the TAD.