MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: roaches, electrical)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

One-seat ride to 5-points and beyond, doubling capacity in the core, but not at the ends of the Blue Line.

But is 5 points that much of a destination for Bankhead users? How many actually transfer to the Red/Gold and go North or South? Plus, the "core" of the Blue line is GWCC-Georgia State, MARTA would happily turn the Green Line back closer in (like they used to) except there's no pocket track until Edgewood and the current headways preclude turning on the main at a crossover like they used to midday and after the evening peak. But maintaining "core" frequencies doesn't require Bankhead, the Vine City pocket track would more than suffice.

That's not to mention the potential for any future extensions to the the NW or NE.

Now this I agree with. But once LRT runs Bankhead-PCM, I seriously question how many riders there will be between Ashby and Bankhead since the LRT expansion will be long before any expansion to the NW.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

But is 5 points that much of a destination for Bankhead users? How many actually transfer to the Red/Gold and go North or South? Plus, the "core" of the Blue line is GWCC-Georgia State, MARTA would happily turn the Green Line back closer in (like they used to) except there's no pocket track until Edgewood and the current headways preclude turning on the main at a crossover like they used to midday and after the evening peak. But maintaining "core" frequencies doesn't require Bankhead, the Vine City pocket track would more than suffice.

MARTA's talked in the not so distant past about extending the Green Line to Avondale, and turning trains there. Particularly to meet with the Clifton Corridor when that's finished, though potentially well before.

In fact, MARTA's current plan for 'station enhancements' for Bankhead includes extending the platform for full 8-car trains, and there were ideas about buying more trains for both the Blue and Green lines as part of More MARTA, which could potentially still be done as part of the overall fleet-replacement that's in the works now.

Add in the potential for a Boone infill station at some point, and you've got the makings for really keeping the line around.

Now this I agree with. But once LRT runs Bankhead-PCM, I seriously question how many riders there will be between Ashby and Bankhead since the LRT expansion will be long before any expansion to the NW.

For now, the Bankhead to PCM direct service is going to be BRT. The Light Rail line will be cutting south along the BeltLine, until Westview, at which point it will become streetcar / light rail along the roads through the AUC, on up to downtown and the existing loop, then to the Eastside BeltLine, which will then go north to PCM.

Not really overlapping services, and hardly likely to be the same relative travel times.

[primaltech]

I know this will likely never happen and I know none of the fanbois will go for this and brush it off as a downgrade and whatever, but at this point I think MARTA should convert all their heavy rail lines to Seattle Link-style light rail, except the 400/north line, convert that one to BRT busway with the potential for future upgrade to LRT.

If they did that, then:

-Gold Line could be extended along Satellite Blvd all the way out to Sugarloaf; with no transfers all the way to the airport. As per Gwinnett's official plan and funding.

-Red Line would at least be one-mode, one-seat between Windward and Lindbergh. And could be upgraded to LRT later.

-The Clifton Corridor and Beltline Corridors and Campbellton could be new colored lines that could run directly in the tunnels to Five Points and Lindbergh. Like the Campbellton LRT could run up to Lindbergh underneath Midtown, giving more frequency in the core.

-The existing Green Line would become that part of the Beltline LRT, instead of having to build a redundant line right next to it. And in the future they could much more cheaply extend that line out to Moore's Mill, via Tilford or Marietta Blvd.

-The Clayton Line could be LRT, yet another colored line that could run up to Five Points or up to Lindbergh or beyond.

-It would be cheaper to extend the west/Blue line to 285, or even to Six Flags.

-Also cheaper to do a line to Cumberland (via I-75 median), and a line to Northlake/Tucker.


I'm gonna do up a map of what it could look like.

[MattCW]

I won't pick it apart, but I will say that any time you do dedicated RoW where none previously exists (i.e. disused railway), the cost different between BRT, LRT and HRT is minimal. Most of the cost is the structure and/or tunnel, and LRT and HRT basically have the same rails and electrical infrastructure.

[primaltech]

Right, but you have a lot more flexibility, like for example in Gwinnett the Gold Line could just run in the middle of Satellite Blvd. It would need to run a little slower, but you wouldn't have to transfer, and it would go faster once it got to Doraville.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I know this will likely never happen and I know none of the fanbois will go for this and brush it off as a downgrade and whatever, but at this point I think MARTA should convert all their heavy rail lines to Seattle Link-style light rail, except the 400/north line, convert that one to BRT busway with the potential for future upgrade to LRT.

Thanks! I hate it!

Yeah, I wonder how much it would cost to retrofit the existing MARTA system to enable such a thing. Not just converting the the rail to bus corridors, but also the electrical systems and car shops. Not to mention the different vehicle geometries that are already involved between the heavy and light rail and bus systems that would make getting platforms right a rolling nightmare.

And... for what? To run lower-capacity trains, not end up saving much, money in new construction, just so you can slow down service by mixing modes at the periphery?

How about we let each mode actually fill it's niche, instead of trying to force-fit a on-size-fits-all mentality?

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Thanks! I hate it!

Yeah, I wonder how much it would cost to retrofit the existing MARTA system to enable such a thing. Not just converting the the rail to bus corridors, but also the electrical systems and car shops. Not to mention the different vehicle geometries that are already involved between the heavy and light rail and bus systems that would make getting platforms right a rolling nightmare.

And... for what? To run lower-capacity trains, not end up saving much, money in new construction, just so you can slow down service by mixing modes at the periphery?

How about we let each mode actually fill it's niche, instead of trying to force-fit a on-size-fits-all mentality?

Billions of dollars, and it's an incredibly stupid idea.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

One-seat ride to 5-points and beyond, doubling capacity in the core, but not at the ends of the Blue Line.

That's not to mention the potential for any future extensions to the the NW or NE.

Expansions to the NE are not feasible with current use of rail and I don't believe there are any NW expansions of light rail on the table.

As MattCW said, its about the duplication.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Thanks! I hate it!

Yeah, I wonder how much it would cost to retrofit the existing MARTA system to enable such a thing. Not just converting the the rail to bus corridors, but also the electrical systems and car shops. Not to mention the different vehicle geometries that are already involved between the heavy and light rail and bus systems that would make getting platforms right a rolling nightmare.

And... for what? To run lower-capacity trains, not end up saving much, money in new construction, just so you can slow down service by mixing modes at the periphery?

How about we let each mode actually fill it's niche, instead of trying to force-fit a on-size-fits-all mentality?

And how much is the addition of light rail costing for electrical systems and car shops? We're adding all that for light rail now.

Its a good thought question. Eventually there will need to be major renovations like DC is facing.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Thanks! I hate it!

Yeah, I wonder how much it would cost to retrofit the existing MARTA system to enable such a thing. Not just converting the the rail to bus corridors, but also the electrical systems and car shops. Not to mention the different vehicle geometries that are already involved between the heavy and light rail and bus systems that would make getting platforms right a rolling nightmare.

And... for what? To run lower-capacity trains, not end up saving much, money in new construction, just so you can slow down service by mixing modes at the periphery?

How about we let each mode actually fill it's niche, instead of trying to force-fit a on-size-fits-all mentality?

Yeah, I prefer HRT over LRT, which is why I've never been a fan of San Diego's Trolley system.