MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: ferry, friendly)

[primaltech]

I live just outside the city, but if I lived a mile away, in NW Buckhead, I would likely vote no on this transit plan, because there's zero benefit anywhere in here for basically the entire northwest quadrant of the city.

Except one "transit center" (probably just a small parking lot) at Moore's Mill, possibly. And that's just going to run a local bus route (not even ART), and way out of the way- not even towards Midtown/Arts Center, where the main trunk line of jobs are.

I'm not saying light rail up the 75 corridor is reasonable (although that would be great), but at least a couple of commuter park&ride lots (like at Mansell and Windward), like at least at West Paces Ferry would be a key one. And that should run an express bus in the HOV lane to Northside Dr, to Arts Center, with no intermediate stops except maybe at Atlantic Station.

The other thing about this plan, the projects are vague, not well defined, and I'm not sure if I'd ever really use any of these. Though I do support any HRT infills or expansions, and I do support transit on the Beltline. But even the Beltline transit is not clear what kind of operation/design, and I already heavily disagree with how it's going to depend on side streets to get way over to King Memorial.

The Northside Dr BRT would stop and turn around and head back down right at 75, before it would become useful to anyone in West Buckhead. It should follow 41 all the way up to the river, then you might have something useful. But even then, riders would still have to go all the way down to Vine City, get on a train, get off and transfer again at Five Points, then get on another train, in order to access job centers in Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead, or go to the airport.

[primaltech]

I do like the Howell Mill ART proposal that goes directly right into North Avenue Station- but I could likely only ever get to use it if it comes with a park&ride transit center @ Howell Mill @ 75.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I live just outside the city, but if I lived a mile away, in NW Buckhead, I would likely vote no on this transit plan, because there's zero benefit anywhere in here for basically the entire northwest quadrant of the city.

That was Buckhead's decision. They wanted LRT removed from Peachtree.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I'm not saying light rail up the 75 corridor is reasonable (although that would be great), but at least a couple of commuter park&ride lots (like at Mansell and Windward), like at least at West Paces Ferry would be a key one.

That could be useful, but I am honestly happy it is off the map. I don't want to add any fuel whatsoever to anyone's mind who is obsessed with equitable development. The map looks good now, lots of investment south of I-20 and west Atlanta.

The other thing about this plan, the projects are vague, not well defined, and I'm not sure if I'd ever really use any of these.

I believe they are just now getting the city council to approve the project list. Much more detail is to come once they know where to concentrate. There is already a ton of detail on many of the projects that would likely be built first as they are in a formal environmental review process. There is a lot of great PR the city can do here, marketing is going to be key with this tax.

The Northside Dr BRT would stop and turn around and head back down right at 75, before it would become useful to anyone in West Buckhead. It should follow 41 all the way up to the river, then you might have something useful. But even then, riders would still have to go all the way down to Vine City, get on a train, get off and transfer again at Five Points, then get on another train, in order to access job centers in Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead, or go to the airport.

That is a great point, although there will be transfers to the Beltline at the current northern terminus. That will be some great crosstown access to Lindbergh, Buckhead, Clifton corridor, etc. Also, North Ave. But it should go a bit further north than I-75. Enhanced bus frequency may do the trick though, with a couple P&R lots.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by jsvh

That was Buckhead's decision. They wanted LRT removed from Peachtree.

I'm finding it harder and harder to find fault in that particular decision. The streetcar would sit in traffic and be nearly useless for the Peachtree corridor, which is already served by the same thing in the form of a bus.

High frequency ART on Peachtree Rd (with signal priority system) would make sense, but not a streetcar if it's anything like the uselessly long headway, traffic-clogged Atlanta Streetcar loop that's currently in place.

Anyway, Peachtree Rd is in NE Atlanta. I'm saying NW Atlanta is not getting anything. Just because it's mostly wealthy SFH and is not dense, doesn't mean it should get nothing. It's a large area. They should get some kind of tailored commuter type service. Buckhead needs traffic relief too, and transport alternatives.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I live just outside the city, but if I lived a mile away, in NW Buckhead, I would likely vote no on this transit plan, because there's zero benefit anywhere in here for basically the entire northwest quadrant of the city.

Except one "transit center" (probably just a small parking lot) at Moore's Mill, possibly. And that's just going to run a local bus route (not even ART), and way out of the way- not even towards Midtown/Arts Center, where the main trunk line of jobs are.

I'm not saying light rail up the 75 corridor is reasonable (although that would be great), but at least a couple of commuter park&ride lots (like at Mansell and Windward), like at least at West Paces Ferry would be a key one. And that should run an express bus in the HOV lane to Northside Dr, to Arts Center, with no intermediate stops except maybe at Atlantic Station.

The other thing about this plan, the projects are vague, not well defined, and I'm not sure if I'd ever really use any of these. Though I do support any HRT infills or expansions, and I do support transit on the Beltline. But even the Beltline transit is not clear what kind of operation/design, and I already heavily disagree with how it's going to depend on side streets to get way over to King Memorial.

The Northside Dr BRT would stop and turn around and head back down right at 75, before it would become useful to anyone in West Buckhead. It should follow 41 all the way up to the river, then you might have something useful. But even then, riders would still have to go all the way down to Vine City, get on a train, get off and transfer again at Five Points, then get on another train, in order to access job centers in Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead, or go to the airport.

Northside Dr, north of 75 narrows a lot and therefore cannot handle true BRT, which is what many of us are hoping for.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I'm finding it harder and harder to find fault in that particular decision. The streetcar would sit in traffic and be nearly useless for the Peachtree corridor, which is already served by the same thing in the form of a bus.

High frequency ART on Peachtree Rd (with signal priority system) would make sense, but not a streetcar if it's anything like the uselessly long headway, traffic-clogged Atlanta Streetcar loop that's currently in place.

Anyway, Peachtree Rd is in NE Atlanta. I'm saying NW Atlanta is not getting anything. Just because it's mostly wealthy SFH and is not dense, doesn't mean it should get nothing. It's a large area. They should get some kind of tailored commuter type service. Buckhead needs traffic relief too, and transport alternatives.

The LRT / Streetcar should get a dedicated lane on Peachtree.

It sounds like there is not any realistic options for the area of NW Atlanta you are talking about besides busses.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The LRT / Streetcar should get a dedicated lane on Peachtree.

It sounds like there is not any realistic options for the area of NW Atlanta you are talking about besides busses.

Much as I would kill to have a line on this stretch, the existing lanes on Peachtree are already too narrow to handle a Streetcar.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Much as I would kill to have a line on this stretch, the existing lanes on Peachtree are already too narrow to handle a Streetcar.

I don't think so. LRT can run in a narrower right of way than busses. But even if not, roads can be re-striped easily.

But it is all water under the bridge for now. ART is just fine for now since Buckhead doesn't want LRT. The money can be spent elsewhere.

[primaltech]

Agreed that Northside and Howell Mill are probably too narrow, but Marietta Blvd has I think 5 or 6 lanes on it. That's plenty to work with for a BRT. And it's a slightly denser corridor and definitely a more transit friendly corridor.

I would like to see a BRT line (or 2 lines) that starts at Five Points, runs along Marietta St, then Line A splits left at West Marietta St, and Line B splits right to run along Howell Mill Rd.

Line A runs on West Marietta, then on Marietta Blvd, and terminates at a park&ride transit center at Moore's Mill. Line B would run up to Howell Mill @ Collier, with no park&rides.

Then you only have one transfer, to go in any chosen direction on the heavy rail.