MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: low cost, light-rail)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I doubt the state could pull a hostile takeover that quick. The lawsuits alone would string it along for years.

I mean, can you imagine if the Nov. ballot passed with all these projects, and the state swept in and tried to make a power grab?


There would be hell to pay for something like that. I mean, I can imagine it happening, but I can also see it going very wrong for anyone who tried.

[primaltech]

As I see it, Cagle is the only legit hope for the regional rail transit that we so desperately need, particularly the north suburbs which have half or more of the metro population, but with only a few dinky local bus routes to show for it, and even those buses have to have transfer stations to other buses because of politics. MARTA simply can't be political kickball fodder anymore, it needs to just go ahead and be controlled by the business-oriented Republican majority and power base, the same people who control the state itself.

As long as there are progressive and in-town and urban and minority voices also at that table and serving on that board, people who care about the poorer areas, and as long as Keith Parker is still in the picture as well, or at least someone who understands transit.

I'm just tired of the endless back and forth. It's clearly in Alpharetta's best interests to expand that line, but they spurn MARTA because of political nonsense and some kind of perceived opposition to the city and ITP and Democrats.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Well hell, primaltech was just complaining about too many stops, now we have too few?

That's one place he and I disagree on local bus routes. While I agree that MARTA has too many stops too close together in many cases, if you spread them out too far, the line itself won't adequately serve the corridor. Emphasis here on corridor. Point to Point works in some cases like the Six Flags shuttle or the express services, but when the point is to serve a corridor, if you spread the stops out too far, it's useless.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by MattCW

That's one place he and I disagree on local bus routes. While I agree that MARTA has too many stops too close together in many cases, if you spread them out too far, the line itself won't adequately serve the corridor. Emphasis here on corridor. Point to Point works in some cases like the Six Flags shuttle or the express services, but when the point is to serve a corridor, if you spread the stops out too far, it's useless.

That's why you don't spread them out too far. You spread them about average 1/4 mile apart, which for MARTA would be probably a 60% reduction in stops. Or more.

And I'm not saying just take a local bus route and decrease the stops, I think it would have to go hand in hand with higher quality bus stations, and other speed and frequency and capacity improvements.

Basically, my theory why bus ridership is so much lower than rail ridership, is because the local bus as a general concept, is useless. Has very little appeal over getting around in a car. Thus I would say that most MARTA bus riders are not choice riders who own and maintain cars, but just love the bus experience.

[primaltech]

If rail gets riders but bus does not, make bus operate and look/feel more like rail. Name the stations, refer to them as stations, use color lines instead of route numbers, put it all on the main map. Have amenities and plenty of seating and shelter at the stations, and bright lights. Not just a pole in the mud.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

That's one place he and I disagree on local bus routes. While I agree that MARTA has too many stops too close together in many cases, if you spread them out too far, the line itself won't adequately serve the corridor. Emphasis here on corridor. Point to Point works in some cases like the Six Flags shuttle or the express services, but when the point is to serve a corridor, if you spread the stops out too far, it's useless.

From the American Public Transportation Association's Bus Rapid Transit Service Design (2010):

Walking distances between stations will vary based on local public expectations and transit agency service standards. The distance people are willing to walk to transit varies but is typically in the order of 0.25 to 0.33 miles (0.4 to 0.5 km), typically a five- to 10-minute walk. In higher-density or high-activity areas, expectations are usually for shorter walks. Many people are willing to walk farther to access a higher-order service such as BRT compared to conventional transit, although there is still a limit on how far people will walk before the trip is no longer attractive. Customers also prefer not to walk too far in the opposite direction of their desired path of travel to access public transit facilities.

For example:

[primaltech]

A stop every 1/4 mile along a corridor is more than plenty, which is a maximum walk of 1/8 mile. Maximum. That's nothing.

Especially when the bus is only coming every 15 minutes, or worse. Plenty of time to walk to the station.

Just makes no sense to me for the bus to stop any more frequently than that. Usually so that one person can get on or off, is what I always see with MARTA. That's just the polar opposite of transportation efficiency. Hence, why the bus is unpopular.

[cqholt]

If Atlanta votes to expand MARTA, will others follow? | Mass Transit

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

That's why you don't spread them out too far. You spread them about average 1/4 mile apart, which for MARTA would be probably a 60% reduction in stops. Or more.

And I'm not saying just take a local bus route and decrease the stops, I think it would have to go hand in hand with higher quality bus stations, and other speed and frequency and capacity improvements.

Basically, my theory why bus ridership is so much lower than rail ridership, is because the local bus as a general concept, is useless. Has very little appeal over getting around in a car. Thus I would say that most MARTA bus riders are not choice riders who own and maintain cars, but just love the bus experience.

Reduce the number of stops and implement the ARC stop guide to properly communicate which route and the ending point. I asked this question to a MARTA rep at the last MARTA/TSPLOST meeting and it was under consideration, but they would want the entire system remodeled, not just CoA, and the funds specifically must be spent on CoA projects.

[jsvh]

Atlanta City Council could reduce TSPLOST tax hike

...If both win approval, Atlanta’s sales tax would increase to 9 percent, Atlanta City Councilwoman Yolanda Adrean, chairman of the council’s Transportation Committee, said during a work session on the proposed votes.

A.J. Robinson, president of Central Atlanta Progress, a downtown business organization, said such a high sales tax could hurt the city’s retail businesses.

“It’s not just about the metro region,” Robinson said. “It’s about Atlanta competing with other cities as well.”

Councilman Howard Shook noted that in just the last seven months, Atlanta voters have been asked to renew the city’s penny sales tax for water and sewer projects as well as Atlanta’s Educational Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (E-SPLOST), both of which were ratified. He suggested voters might not be willing to keep approving more taxes.

“Is there a limit to people’s appetite for considering this?” Shook asked.

None of those who spoke out proposed reducing the proposed half-penny MARTA tax, a long-term proposition that would raise an estimated $2.5 billion through 2057. Rather, they suggested the council might consider dropping the so-called TSPLOST referendum to a quarter penny or less. A half-penny would raise about $325 million during the next five years.

“It’s renewable,” Robinson said. “You do get another bite at the apple.”

Under the legislation, the council has until June 30 to approve a resolution authorizing a vote on the MARTA tax increase, Since the TSPLOST referendum has to be submitted to the Fulton County Commission for approval, council members have more time to decide whether to seek a smaller tax increase in that referendum.