Truck lanes for I-75 a $2 billion gamble (Atlanta, Savannah: spring break, sales)

[fourthwarden]

Typically when a state embarks on major road projects, stakeholders must be consulted, public opinion must be invited, and other alternatives must be carefully weighed. The process is designed to help states avoid building ill-conceived projects, and make sure the best option wins.

Since freight traffic has different patterns at different times of day than commuter traffic, studying whether separating the two would help as much as a regular road widening is particularly important.
None of that has happened yet with the truck lanes, two northbound-only lanes that would parallel I-75 between Interstate 475 in Macon and Ga. 155 in McDonough.

GDOT Chief Engineer Meg Pirkle said that examining alternatives and gathering public feedback will be the next step.

“A truck-only lane with no toll is getting real close to a gratuity,” said Neill Herring, a longtime lobbyist for the Sierra Club in Georgia, which advocates for transit funding. “$2 billion would put multiple passenger trains between Macon and Atlanta. That investment would remove far more vehicles from the roads than the truck lanes.”

Being the person I am, I'll have to side with Neill Herring. The rail corridor(s) between Atlanta and Macon are expected to become congested in the upcoming years. The Norfolk Southern Atlanta South district, which runs between Atlanta and Macon, is rated, by the GDOT, to have a practical daily capacity of 35-55 trains. It currently runs 25-35 trains per day. The line between Macon and Savannah, Savannah district, is already at capacity with 25-35 daily trains on a line designed to practically handle 25-35 daily trains. (Source: 2015 Georgia State Rail Plan, page 125)

$2 Billion for 40 miles = 50 Million per mile, nearly twice the high end cost of commuter rail. The U.S. Secretary of Transportation Anthony Foxx JUST asked the southeastern states to band together to form a coalition of unified rail efforts. He explained that, with such an organization at the head of projects for BOTH freight and passenger service, we could handle much more capacity than we could otherwise. He pointed to the start of the FASTLANE program, which specifically targets freight enhancement projects on highways, ports, and rails.

Here's a suggestion that I hope the GDOT / State considers, in some part, in their studies: Go bigger. Take the entire stretch between Atlanta to Macon to Savannah, and upgrade it. 95% of the mainline in the state is single-tracked, using sidings to pass trains. I say we get with Norfolk Southern, and put up our $2 Billion with as much help / backing from federal grants as we can, and do a Public Private Partnership to double-track the mainline all the way down into Savannah.

The State would offer this to NS in exchange to multiple (~5) daily trains along the newly upgraded line. Have Savannah, Atlanta, and Macon, as well as any other towns in between, pitch in for their own station's construction, and we're in business.

The State gets increased freight capacity to go with the deepened port, as well as finally running passenger service between three of its top 5 cities. Norfolk Southern, a company headquartered in Atlanta, gets upgraded capacity for a fraction of the cost to themselves. Everyone wins.

[MattCW]

As the state rail plan points out though, most of Georgia's trackage is single with passing sidings. In fact, far less is double track than I thought, mostly just terminal areas and their approaches really. It should cost far less to add track capacity to the railroad than new lanes to the same corridor.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

As the state rail plan points out though, most of Georgia's trackage is single with passing sidings. In fact, far less is double track than I thought, mostly just terminal areas and their approaches really. It should cost far less to add track capacity to the railroad than new lanes to the same corridor.

That's exactly what I'm proposing!

We get the state's $2 Bil. some federal grant money from FASTLANE and maybe TIGER, and try and convince Norfolk Southern to pick up whatever the remaining rail upgrade costs would be to double-track all the way between Atlanta to Macon to Savannah.

Let each city pay for their station via TOD, P3, Sales Tax, other grants, etc. which should include rip tracks to pull passenger trains off the mainline. NS gets massively upgraded mainlines, with the condition that the state can run 8-10 (4-5 in each direction) Inter-city trains on the improved line.

[cqholt]

Trucking Company lobbyist are probably pushing this with campaign donations to keep their edge over RR companies.

[brown_dog_us]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Trucking Company lobbyist are probably pushing this with campaign donations to keep their edge over RR companies.

Yep.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Being the person I am, I'll have to side with Neill Herring. The rail corridor(s) between Atlanta and Macon are expected to become congested in the upcoming years. The Norfolk Southern Atlanta South district, which runs between Atlanta and Macon, is rated, by the GDOT, to have a practical daily capacity of 35-55 trains. It currently runs 25-35 trains per day. The line between Macon and Savannah, Savannah district, is already at capacity with 25-35 daily trains on a line designed to practically handle 25-35 daily trains. (Source: 2015 Georgia State Rail Plan, page 125)

$2 Billion for 40 miles = 50 Million per mile, nearly twice the high end cost of commuter rail. The U.S. Secretary of Transportation Anthony Foxx JUST asked the southeastern states to band together to form a coalition of unified rail efforts. He explained that, with such an organization at the head of projects for BOTH freight and passenger service, we could handle much more capacity than we could otherwise. He pointed to the start of the FASTLANE program, which specifically targets freight enhancement projects on highways, ports, and rails.

Here's a suggestion that I hope the GDOT / State considers, in some part, in their studies: Go bigger. Take the entire stretch between Atlanta to Macon to Savannah, and upgrade it. 95% of the mainline in the state is single-tracked, using sidings to pass trains. I say we get with Norfolk Southern, and put up our $2 Billion with as much help / backing from federal grants as we can, and do a Public Private Partnership to double-track the mainline all the way down into Savannah.

The State would offer this to NS in exchange to multiple (~5) daily trains along the newly upgraded line. Have Savannah, Atlanta, and Macon, as well as any other towns in between, pitch in for their own station's construction, and we're in business.

The State gets increased freight capacity to go with the deepened port, as well as finally running passenger service between three of its top 5 cities. Norfolk Southern, a company headquartered in Atlanta, gets upgraded capacity for a fraction of the cost to themselves. Everyone wins.

Passenger rail is almost totally irrelevant to I-75 traffic. The interesting question is why they aren't trying to do HOT lanes.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

Passenger rail is almost totally irrelevant to I-75 traffic. The interesting question is why they aren't trying to do HOT lanes.

It seems like a waste to build HOT lanes in non-large metro areas, who would use them if the 'free' lanes are flowing?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

It seems like a waste to build HOT lanes in non-large metro areas, who would use them if the 'free' lanes are flowing?

Maybe that's their thinking. But it would provide an alternative if there is congestion, which they seem to expect. Texas put an 85 mph speed limit as an incentive on one of theirs that runs parallel to (but not immediately adjacent to) I-35. Most non-urban toll roads don't have parallel freeways close by.

[scgraham]

Trucks need their own lanes, those free of cars completely.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by cqholt

It seems like a waste to build HOT lanes in non-large metro areas, who would use them if the 'free' lanes are flowing?

Every single experienced spring break driver who knows how bad 75 can get. Same with holidays. The traffic to/from Florida is crazy. I don't think it's actually realistic, but IF they existed I would probably use them more than the free lanes.