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I have read that book and it's provides very detailed accounts on what happened that don't get discussed usually and it provides insights on how the city changed and metro grew as a result.
I get some strange looks on the train, when the cover has a large Confederate Flag and White Flight in bold red letters.
AtlantaIsHot: Those proclamations were probably a bit premature to have been presented as some sort of empirical, peer-reviewed gospel. And not only premature, but over-exaggerated. The Atlantic published a very good piece about how the urban in-flight is most heavily entrenched among a very narrow demographic - college-educated, well-to-do, young (20s and early 30s) white people without school-aged children. That rules out a LOT of people who are not a part of the prototypical 21st century urbanist profile.
Much of what many people of various types want can be found in highly populated, diverse and economically vibrant suburbs. At this point, many suburbs across the country are allegedly are more dynamic and diverse than their central city.
Again your point is always Atlanta vs the entire Suburbs and you miss the complete point.
The population in raw numbers isn't sprawling out like they was.
The inner metro is becoming denser faster than the metro is sprawling out.
Other wise more people are Choosing to live in Atlanta or crowd up Gwinnett than sprawl out to forsyth. forsyth is still growing but core counties are growing more in raw numbers. That is a reverse trend.
People use to leave the city because they wanted a certain slower suburb lifestyle. But now the inner metros are becoming denser and developing more. In the 80's they wasn't building mix use projects in the suburbs that would defeat the reason they didn't live in the city.
Your saying people move when they reach a certain age they move the suburbs, the error is suburbs are becoming more like the city. "highly populated, diverse and economically vibrant suburbs."...... That's my point that's what people was originally trying escape from the city. Now people are not as much fleeing those characteristics.
Cities have different sizes if Atlanta was Phoenix, Los Angeles, Houston city limit size. kennesaw would be in side the city. So if kennesaw grew it would counted as the city is growing. The Reason I keep bringing this up is because political boundaries are pointless when looking at cities growth. In the relative same area.
Chinatown Houston is in the 634 sq mi city,
Buford Hwy is not in Atlanta 132 sq mi
Buford Hwy still pick up a urban ethnic enclave characteristics.
So.... If you had to look at the inner metro is becoming more develop in the same relative area of Houston and Harris county. It far out weigh the exurban sprawl growth.
Again your point is always Atlanta vs the entire Suburbs and you miss the complete point.
The population in raw numbers isn't sprawling out like they was.
The inner metro is becoming denser faster than the metro is sprawling out.
Other wise more people are Choosing to live in Atlanta or crowd up Gwinnett than sprawl out to forsyth. forsyth is still growing but core counties are growing more in raw numbers. That is a reverse trend.
People use to leave the city because they wanted a certain slower suburb lifestyle. But now the inner metros are becoming denser and developing more. In the 80's they wasn't building mix use projects in the suburbs that would defeat the reason they didn't live in the city.
Your saying people move when they reach a certain age they move the suburbs, the error is suburbs are becoming more like the city. "highly populated, diverse and economically vibrant suburbs."...... That's my point that's what people was originally trying escape from the city. Now people are not as much fleeing those characteristics.
Cities have different sizes if Atlanta was Phoenix, Los Angeles, Houston city limit size. kennesaw would be in side the city. So if kennesaw grew it would counted as the city is growing. The Reason I keep bringing this up is because political boundaries are pointless when looking at cities growth. In the relative same area.
Chinatown Houston is in the 634 sq mi city,
Buford Hwy is not in Atlanta 132 sq mi
Buford Hwy still pick up a urban ethnic enclave characteristics.
So.... If you had to look at the inner metro is becoming more develop in the same relative area of Houston and Harris county. It far out weigh the exurban sprawl growth.
No, I think I do see your point. However, the City of Atlanta constitutes a finite percentage of the Atlanta Metro, and that is a fact. Most of the growth of what people term "Atlanta," or rather Greater Atlanta or Metro Atlanta is not within those finite boundaries. Instead, it is in both the inner suburbs, the outer suburbs and the exburbs - all of which collectively still encompass Metro or Greater Atlanta.
I think as the suburbs continue to attract people, they are finding that they can achieve much of the better of both worlds. I don't think most people live in the suburbs to "escape the city" (perhaps that was truer with white flight in the 50s-70s). Instead, they move to communities they like, can afford, with the amenities they desire/need, where they feel safe and comfortable.
Plus, there is really nowhere else to go now. I mean, how far out are people really willing to live (and still be within a major metropolitan area)? Perhaps if they want acreage or a farm or to truly be unbothered, they will venture to Bartow County, maybe (though that pace and quality of life could be had closer in, in Powder Springs). Moreover, I don't think that many Atlanta suburbs are that far from the "city proper." It wasn't until I came here and started frequenting this board that I came to realize that some folks consider a 20-mile drive the virtual parallel of a cross-country trip! That's insane, and really portends an insular view of the entire region (or one's immediate 5-mile vicinity). Again, this reflects my prior point about newcomers and transplants seeing it "all" as Metro/Greater Atlanta, not these separate communities and towns that are all within 20-30 miles of each other.
BTW, "I" didn't say people move to the suburbs when they get older by default, but they actually tend to do so. People can get more house, oftentimes for less money (though that's changing) with quality schools and easy access to everyday amenities and needs, and that holds appeal.
The Atlantic published the article about the in-town resurgence being attributed to a very small demographic, which means most people are not a part of that overstated renewal.
Again your point is always Atlanta vs the entire Suburbs and you miss the complete point.
The population in raw numbers isn't sprawling out like they was.
The inner metro is becoming denser faster than the metro is sprawling out.
Other wise more people are Choosing to live in Atlanta or crowd up Gwinnett than sprawl out to forsyth. forsyth is still growing but core counties are growing more in raw numbers. That is a reverse trend.
People use to leave the city because they wanted a certain slower suburb lifestyle. But now the inner metros are becoming denser and developing more. In the 80's they wasn't building mix use projects in the suburbs that would defeat the reason they didn't live in the city.
Your saying people move when they reach a certain age they move the suburbs, the error is suburbs are becoming more like the city. "highly populated, diverse and economically vibrant suburbs."...... That's my point that's what people was originally trying escape from the city. Now people are not as much fleeing those characteristics.
Cities have different sizes if Atlanta was Phoenix, Los Angeles, Houston city limit size. kennesaw would be in side the city. So if kennesaw grew it would counted as the city is growing. The Reason I keep bringing this up is because political boundaries are pointless when looking at cities growth. In the relative same area.
Chinatown Houston is in the 634 sq mi city,
Buford Hwy is not in Atlanta 132 sq mi
Buford Hwy still pick up a urban ethnic enclave characteristics.
So.... If you had to look at the inner metro is becoming more develop in the same relative area of Houston and Harris county. It far out weigh the exurban sprawl growth.
Good points. While the main growth areas of Atlanta continue to be outside of the city limits, a higher percentage of growth is currently happening within the city. The numbers prove this, and it's a great sign for the city. A metro area as great as this one SHOULD have a larger city at its center and the trend right now is toward moving into the city - not out of it.
No, I think I do see your point. However, the City of Atlanta constitutes a finite percentage of the Atlanta Metro, and that is a fact. Most of the growth of what people term "Atlanta," or rather Greater Atlanta or Metro Atlanta is not within those finite boundaries. Instead, it is in both the inner suburbs, the outer suburbs and the exburbs - all of which collectively still encompass Metro or Greater Atlanta.
I think as the suburbs continue to attract people, they are finding that they can achieve much of the better of both worlds. I don't think most people live in the suburbs to "escape the city" (perhaps that was truer with white flight in the 50s-70s). Instead, they move to communities they like, can afford, with the amenities they desire/need, where they feel safe and comfortable.
Plus, there is really nowhere else to go now. I mean, how far out are people really willing to live (and still be within a major metropolitan area)? Perhaps if they want acreage or a farm or to truly be unbothered, they will venture to Bartow County, maybe (though that pace and quality of life could be had closer in, in Powder Springs). Moreover, I don't think that many Atlanta suburbs are that far from the "city proper." It wasn't until I came here and started frequenting this board that I came to realize that some folks consider a 20-mile drive the virtual parallel of a cross-country trip! That's insane, and really portends an insular view of the entire region (or one's immediate 5-mile vicinity). Again, this reflects my prior point about newcomers and transplants seeing it "all" as Metro/Greater Atlanta, not these separate communities and towns that are all within 20-30 miles of each other.
BTW, "I" didn't say people move to the suburbs when they get older by default, but they actually tend to do so. People can get more house, oftentimes for less money (though that's changing) with quality schools and easy access to everyday amenities and needs, and that holds appeal.
The Atlantic published the article about the in-town resurgence being attributed to a very small demographic, which means most people are not a part of that overstated renewal.
That percentage is only because Atlanta city limit size..... I saying put that to the side for a second. Metropolitan have rings a denser core, a secondary ring, Third, Fourth and etc. This doesn't change no matter what metro.
Going back to Houston 634 sq mi city Houston's secondary ring is part of the city. The Same with Dallas, Los Angeles, Phoenix and etc. As in most of Atlanta Sunbelt peers. Los Angeles is 469 sq mi that's almost 4x the area of Atlanta. That Basically makes Cobb County like Atlanta's San Fernando Valley and etc.
But Atlanta's secondary ring is not a part of the city. but it doesn't make a difference. Smyrna, Sandy Springs, Roswell, Decatur, Dunwoody, Marietta, Norcross and etc is Atlanta second ring and represent the same point if was part of the city or not.
My point if Somebody moved to the far out end of the city of Houston would that not be the same thing as moving to Norcross? It has nothing to do with the city if Sandy Springs, Roswell and etc was part of the city of Atlanta people still would be moving to those place.
"BTW, "I" didn't say people move to the suburbs when they get older by default, but they actually tend to do so. People can get more house, oftentimes for less money (though that's changing) with quality schools and easy access to everyday amenities and needs, and that holds appeal."
But if the inner suburbs are becoming more highly populated that is not happening. So when people get older they are going to leave the city and go to the suburbs with growing characteristic of the same thing? It defeats the point to the point they might as well stay in the city. Gwinnett is projected to hit a million at that point it's clearly not a suburban fantasy of trying to escape Atlanta.
I agree with the region thing but however Cobb and Gwinnett have more in common with Atlanta and Fulton than Bartow, Charokee, and forsyth. They are way more populated, grow denser, and about 1/3 of those counties would had been a part of the city if Atlanta had a normal sunbelt city sq mi. Atlanta is not 1/10 of the metro because there no core and just sprawl. When writers talk about urban is gaining popularity they don't just mean the city proper, They referring to the general increase of urban developments, And people choosing to stay closer in than to continue sprawling at the same rate. This most often refer the city proper but includes the inner suburbs.
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