I'm all for gentrification. (Atlanta, Hogansville: renting, condo, buy)

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by muses24

Exactly. And community service isn't going to help these kids. I'm sure they were given community service the first 10 times they were caught. They decided upon this lifestyle and they aren't going to stop because you ask them nicely. And it is a small minority. I heard a cop say that it's a few hundred causing havoc and it's the same ones that get arrested over and over again. These are not my kids. It's not my job to look out for them. It's my job to look out for my family and keep them safe from these kids. And i won't apologize for it. And pulling out the race card every time someone mentions jail sentences, stricter laws and making the community better is just really ridiculous.

I'm not quite sure if you know what you are talking about. Isn't East Atlanta (as well the surrounding areas within the city limits) pretty much gentrified already. It's already pretty much a done deal in almost all the intown Eastside hoods. That area is pretty mixed economically and racially IMO. The schools are also on the rise as well -- check the stats. So, I'm not quite sure what you are complaining about regarding EA in particular. I know I can't afford to live there. What price point of home are you trying to buy? What makes you think crime is so bad there of all places? There are definitely worse neighborhoods out there. And the intown neighborhoods that are better have homes starting at $400k or more. Is that what you are looking for? I can see if you're looking at West End, or Adair Park, or even Summerhill. But if you love gentrification in the City of Atlanta, then it seems like East Atlanta is the place for you...

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by muses24

I've read and watched a lot of articles and videos on the subject. I guess I can kind of understand why some people wouldn't be on board, but basically I think it's the only thing that's going to save metro Atlanta. If not for gentrification it would be a war zone. I believe it's necessary to root out the unwanted elements. I'm moving to east atl on the Dekalb side and I hope they continue building and changing that area because I want my property value to increase and it won't if I'm surrounded by future felons of America.

Just curious, are you from Atlanta? If not, how long have you lived here? Secondly, I think elements of gentrification help aspects of the City of Atlanta (depending on who you are), but not "Metro Atlanta". I didn't know gentrification was happening in the suburbs like that... Lastly, the most confusing thing about your post is that you are railing against crime and slums and you're moving to East Atlanta, which has been pretty desirable for at least a decade.

When I first read your post, I thought you were moving to the City of Atlanta in Dekalb County. But now I see that you may mean the portion of 30316 that is in unincorporated Dekalb and not in the CoA. If this is the case, I'd hate to break it to you, but this area will not gentrify for a long, long time, if at all. It takes a lot of people and support to turn a neighborhood around, and unfortunately, South DeKalb just does not have it. If you want gentrification, move into the city. If you can't afford the Eastside, then go to the southwest side. Gentrification is happening there too, but in a more wholistic, collaborative way. So if you are trying to buy a house in unicorpoared DeKalb, don't waste your time and money moving in and hoping gentrification will happen. I don't think it will. And if this is where you are looking, you probably can't afford a gentrified neighborhood. So your best bet would be to move to an "up and coming" neighborhood and put in the work to make the neighborhood great if you're gonna be the black gentrifier.

Gentrifying:
West End
Westview
Adair Park
Capital View
Capital View Manor
Sylvan Hills
Peoplestown
Summerhill
Historic South Atlanta
Thomasville Heights
Chosewood Park
Benteen

Already gentrified:
The entire 30317 (Edgewood being the last hood to gentrify in the zip code)
Grant Park
Ormewood Park
East Atlanta
Reynoldstown
Cabbagetown
Old Fourth Ward
The entire 30307
The entire 30306

Still pretty sketchy:
30318
Bankhead
English Ave (sorry residinghere2007)
Vine City (quickly on the rise)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by muses24

I don't believe that gentrification means getting rid of anyone. I believe that as value goes up, the ones that can't afford to stay will leave, and that's anyone, despite race.

.

That's a contradictory mentality. The people you are getting rid of are those who can not afford to stay. That's basically saying you are okay with the poor people getting kicked out.

Considering how you opened this thread by defending your support for gentrification on the idea that it will get rid of "undesireable elements" and your linking of those who would be forced to leave to criminals, all I can really say is that you're generalizing socio-economic classes and using that as justification for their removal.

Perhaps you aren't racist, but you certainly are classist.

But what is your solution. Every time someone is for gentrification they're called a racist. I don't think it's racist to want to improve your area and therefore make it safer for everyone. Really, what would your solution be?

You say improve and make better for everyone, but gentrification, by definition, excludes those who can't affordto live there any longer. Your 'everyone' excludes the poor people.

As for solutions, well, if I had a perfecton, I'd be getting paid quite a bit by the city. I do have a few ideas, though.

Fist and formost is a freeze on property taxes. This is being done, but I am not sure to what extent. This is meant to be little more than a stop-gap for the short-term.

Next is to make it easier to build more dense housing. Lower the entry barrier, and you'll get cheaper units, not only from increased supply, but also from cheaper start up and maintenance costs. This also means that mandatory affordable housing percentages should be easier to meet without killing the profitability of a prject. Time Keane is working on getting our zoning set up to allow this. To go with this, disentivise keeping vacant lots for land speculation without actually adding value to the community / city. This includes downtown parking lots as well neghborhood properties.

To go along with this should be much more work to get small-buisnesses off the ground, concentrating on filling in areas that have little to no walkable alternatives to shopping. More buisneeses = more employed persons = less criminals.

We alson need the transit structure in place to make it easier to live carless within the city, and priced accordingly. Generally, as non-car transportation options improve, your transportation costs on the individual go down. That frees up more money for housing, school, food, etc.

Then we need to reduce regressive taxes as much as possible. The city has no income taxes at all, and the state's tax is basically a flat tax. If these were restructured to be proper progressive taxes, and used to take over salestaxes, then we'd be easing the cost of living burden on those who can afford it least.

While all this is happening, strong neighborhood and community leadership should be established where non exists currently. A lot of neighborhoods in Atlanta only have the NPUs and city councile to represent them, which means they get 'top level' help, but little on the ground. Basically, set the community / neighborhood associations up as a permenant layer of city government, just below the NPUs, and recruit for them from the neighborhood in question. Offer training and support, and generally actually help on the ground level.

With that structure in place, we can coordinate any number of things, from existing services and nonprofits (like bringing in the sanitation dept. to clean up illegal dumping, and drop off a dumpster for community trash, or having trees Atlanta offer free/discount tree trimming and care) to new ones (like the work program I described in your other thread).

Other programs like the 'secure neighborhoods initiative' (rennovating blight houses to home police officers) could be expanded to other city employees, filling in blight. Expanding our police precincts and mini-precints to offer routine foot patrols over a much wider area of the city, through neighborhoods, would help with safety and commited communiy memebers.

I'm sure there's plenty more to go along with all this, and I'm sure quite a bit of it is under more review than I know, but that's what I got.

[muses24]

I've lived here my entire life and gentrification is happening in other areas than just downtown. And like it or not it's happening. I'm not going to argue with ignorance and people that try to make race an issue no matter what the problem is.

And great, you have all these suggestions. Why don't you work on some of those. My car has been broken in twice and I'm lucky it hasn't been my home. I'm not here to rehab grown people. Everyone take responsibility for yourself and your kids and don't make your bad children everyone else's problem and then things will be better. Until that happens then the system can have them. Happy 4th.

[muses24]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Just curious, are you from Atlanta? If not, how long have you lived here? Secondly, I think elements of gentrification help aspects of the City of Atlanta (depending on who you are), but not "Metro Atlanta". I didn't know gentrification was happening in the suburbs like that... Lastly, the most confusing thing about your post is that you are railing against crime and slums and you're moving to East Atlanta, which has been pretty desirable for at least a decade.

When I first read your post, I thought you were moving to the City of Atlanta in Dekalb County. But now I see that you may mean the portion of 30316 that is in unincorporated Dekalb and not in the CoA. If this is the case, I'd hate to break it to you, but this area will not gentrify for a long, long time, if at all. It takes a lot of people and support to turn a neighborhood around, and unfortunately, South DeKalb just does not have it. If you want gentrification, move into the city. If you can't afford the Eastside, then go to the southwest side. Gentrification is happening there too, but in a more wholistic, collaborative way. So if you are trying to buy a house in unicorpoared DeKalb, don't waste your time and money moving in and hoping gentrification will happen. I don't think it will. And if this is where you are looking, you probably can't afford a gentrified neighborhood. So your best bet would be to move to an "up and coming" neighborhood and put in the work to make the neighborhood great if you're gonna be the black gentrifier.

Gentrifying:
West End
Westview
Adair Park
Capital View
Capital View Manor
Sylvan Hills
Peoplestown
Summerhill
Historic South Atlanta
Thomasville Heights
Chosewood Park
Benteen

Already gentrified:
The entire 30317 (Edgewood being the last hood to gentrify in the zip code)
Grant Park
Ormewood Park
East Atlanta
Reynoldstown
Cabbagetown
Old Fourth Ward
The entire 30307
The entire 30306

Still pretty sketchy:
30318
Bankhead
English Ave (sorry residinghere2007)
Vine City (quickly on the rise)

I don't live there, I'm shopping and luckily I make enough that I have options, but where I'm moving is a non issue. Where I'm not going to move is to an area where they won't put in work to clean up their area. The post was about gentrification in general and you think that Atlanta, even the parts in surrounding counties aren't being gentrified then clearly you haven't gotten in your car and driven around. There's been nothing but new construction for the last 10 years in that part of Atlanta. Instead of attempting to lecture me, why don't you go to a city council meeting and take a look at the upcoming plans for the area. But unfortunately those that have moved in have become easy prey for the unsupervised teen thugs that live in that area, as well as the areas around constitution and thomasville. Lastly, I don't care what you think of me. Call me classist because I'm sick of watching nice neighborhoods suffer due to their close proximity to criminal hub communities and projects where some parents allow their children to knowingly go wild. Let's see if you put any of your good ideas into action. Something tells me you won't.

PS. The best way to successfully change an area for the better is to get rid of the elements that will keep people from wanting to move there and you don't have to live in Atlanta to do things to make the city better. But people who aren't just all talk know that.

[muses24]

And your long list left out Decatur, which has been gentrifying for years. Since, you're under the impression that Fulton county is the only county making changes.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by muses24

I've lived here my entire life and gentrification is happening in other areas than just downtown. And like it or not it's happening. I'm not going to argue with ignorance and people that try to make race an issue no matter what the problem is.

And great, you have all these suggestions. Why don't you work on some of those. My car has been broken in twice and I'm lucky it hasn't been my home. I'm not here to rehab grown people. Everyone take responsibility for yourself and your kids and don't make your bad children everyone else's problem and then things will be better. Until that happens then the system can have them. Happy 4th.

I have been working on these, but there is only so much I can tangibly accomplish from accross the continent. Besides, these are long-term projects that take years to get where they need to be.

I too have been stollen from, multiple times, and I still feel sympathy for the people who you broadly condemn. As it has always been, the problem is in your generalizations. I do find it hypocritical that you have decided to use a few instances, perpetrated by a few bad people, to condemn entire swaths of our population. Talk about putting personal burdens on others.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by muses24

I don't live there, I'm shopping and luckily I make enough that I have options, but where I'm moving is a non issue.

I thought the whole point was to move to an area that is gentrified because you love gentrification so. I don't have a problem with that. But if you have options and can afford better, why not just move to an area that is gentrified to your satisfaction. If you cannot do that, you may just have to work with what you have... at least for now.

Originally Posted by muses24

Where I'm not going to move is to an area where they won't put in work to clean up their area.

Cool. But where exactly are you referring to? EAV? What gentrified or gentrifying areas have a sizable number of residents that will not put in work to clean up their area?

Originally Posted by muses24

The post was about gentrification in general and you think that Atlanta, even the parts in surrounding counties aren't being gentrified then clearly you haven't gotten in your car and driven around.

Did you read what I wrote? I said, "I think elements of gentrification help aspects of the City of Atlanta (depending on who you are), but not "Metro Atlanta". I didn't know gentrification was happening in the suburbs like that..." In other words, the large majority of the gentrification is taking place in the City of Atlanta, but not so much the suburbs. I gave you a big, long list of gentrifying and gentrified neighbors all in the City of Atlanta...

Originally Posted by muses24

There's been nothing but new construction for the last 10 years in that part of Atlanta.

What part? East Atlanta? The part in unincorporated Dekalb? New construction is not necessary a primary hallmark of gentrification. Look at Inman Park, Grant Park, Candler Park, etc.

Originally Posted by muses24

Instead of attempting to lecture me, why don't you go to a city council meeting and take a look at the upcoming plans for the area.

I do go to city council meetings for the City of Atlanta. Plans for what area? Unincorporated Dekalb? What are the plans for the area that feeds into McNair High and Middle, for example? Are you talking about the area that feeds into South Atlanta High School? Either way, are the plans good enough to ride it out in that area until they come to fruition? If not, there are all types of plans all over the city that would increase home values and encourage buyers all over the city...

Originally Posted by muses24

But unfortunately those that have moved in have become easy prey for the unsupervised teen thugs that live in that area, as well as the areas around constitution and thomasville.

If you are talking about Constitution and Thomasville west of Moreland, it may take a while. If you want gentrification, that is probably not the area to move to unless you're willing to deal with it as it is (which it seems that you clearly are not... which is okay.) Why not try Grant Park, Chosewood Park, or Boulevard Heights a little further north? If you are talking about Constitution and Thomasville east of Moreland, that is not Atlanta proper. I don't think gentrification will happen there for a long, long, time.

Originally Posted by muses24

Lastly, I don't care what you think of me.

When did I insinuate having any sort of opinion about you?

Originally Posted by muses24

Call me classist because I'm sick of watching nice neighborhoods suffer due to their close proximity to criminal hub communities and projects where some parents allow their children to knowingly go wild.

I feel you. What neighborhoods are talking about? Are you expecting gentrification to happen in every inch of Atlanta (including Constitution Rd. and unincorporated Dekalb). I've lived in unincorporated Dekalb County for many years hoping for the same things that you are. It seems like you are arguing just to argue. There are plenty of gentrifying neighborhoods at various price points that may not have these issues that you are concerned about (or at the very least, the residents are doing something about it). Why are you so stuck on the SE fringes? Pick a spot that has what you want.

Originally Posted by muses24

Let's see if you put any of your good ideas into action. Something tells me you won't. PS. The best way to successfully change an area for the better is to get rid of the elements that will keep people from wanting to move there and you don't have to live in Atlanta to do things to make the city better. But people who aren't just all talk know that.

What in the world are you taking about? What tells you that I won't? What makes you think I'm all talk? A paragraph on an internet forum? Why are you so mad/antagonistic. I'm sorry if something happened to you in SE Atlanta. I guess you just needed to vent.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by muses24

And your long list left out Decatur, which has been gentrifying for years. Since, you're under the impression that Fulton county is the only county making changes.

The list was only referring to Atlanta. Also, several neighborhoods on the list are in Dekalb. Candler Park, Lake Claire, Edgewood, Kirkwood, East Lake (which borders Decatur City), and East Atlanta (proper) are all in Dekalb (and gentrified). I didn't say anything about Fulton.

Are these the types of areas that you are complaining about with crime, etc? If not, the parts you are talking about are probably not in the City of Atlanta. And unless you are in it for the long haul, I don't see unincorporated Dekalb (the parts that are not within the city limits) "gentrifying" anytime soon.

Lastly, although the City of Decatur is located in Dekalb County, it has its own highly functioning city government. So it is still not part of unincorporated Dekalb County. BTW, north and south Fulton is not part of the City of Atlanta either. Just FYI.

[arjay57]

I hear folks criticizing gentrification in the abstract but I don't recall hearing any great hue and cry over gentrification for things like the Beltline, PCM, O4W, Candler Park, Midtown, etc. Does it come down to whose ox is being gored.