I wish so much that they would bring back the Northern Arc & Super Arterial Expressway plans (Atlanta: transfer to, buying)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

And it has lead to obesity, high blood pressure, low QoL, thousands of deaths per year, sprawl, etc. We need to use a multi-modal approach and see the value in road and transit investment.

If cars are so bad why are they so wildly popular in Europe? They probably have higher car ownership than we do.

And look at China. It has already become the world's largest automobile market.

And India is gearing up rapidly, too. Everybody wants some wheels.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

If cars are so bad why are they so wildly popular in Europe? They probably have higher car ownership than we do.

And look at China. It has already become the world's largest automobile market.

And India is gearing up rapidly, too. Everybody wants some wheels.

The U.S. has the 3rd highest vehicles per capita in the world. San Marino (population of 32,576) and Monoco (population of 37,800) are the two countries above us.

India and China are also clogged, polluted, and have a rising obesity issue. China is investing HEAVILY in its rail and alternative transportation infrastructure in an attempt to keep its people moving.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

The U.S. has the 3rd highest vehicles per capita in the world. San Marino (population of 32,576) and Monoco (population of 37,800) are the two countries above us.

Are you sure about that?

Discard your stereotypes: people in the U.S. own fewer passenger vehicles on average than in almost all other developed nations.

Americans love cars. We pioneered their mass production, designed iconic autos from the Model T to the Deville to the Corvette, and are a major exporter as well as importer. It's practically a part of the American national identity. But it turns out, according to a new paper from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on worldwide car usage, that American per capita car ownership rates are actually among the lowest in the developed world.

The U.S. is ranked 25th in world by number of passenger cars per person, just above Ireland and just below Bahrain. There are 439 cars here for every thousand Americans, meaning a little more than two people for every car. That number is higher in nearly all of Western Europe -- the U.K., Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, etc. -- as well as in Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. It's higher in crisis-wracked Iceland and Greece. Italians and New Zealanders have nearly 50 percent more cars per capita than does the U.S. The highest rate in the world is casino-riddled Mediterranean city-state Monaco, with 771 cars per thousand citizens.

More...It's Official: Western Europeans Have More Cars Per Person Than Americans - The Atlantic

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Are you sure about that?

They're two different ranks.


Yours is 'passenger vehicles per 1000 people', mine is 'motor vehicles per 1000 people'.

Passenger vehicles, I would suspect, include things like motor bikes, and scooters, which fit in tighter European cities far better than our larger cars.

[primaltech]

Assuming we had the mega mega money to pay for it (and the public will to increase taxes significantly), I would support constructing a new network of capacity-relieving, controlled-access free-flow expressways for the Atlanta metro, built completely underground. No wider than 8 lanes (4 lanes per side), with permanently fixed width.

Access would be variably (and heavily) tolled for all vehicles (no matter the type or occupancy), based on time of day and congestion levels/ demand. Exempting only registered transit, and of course emergency vehicles. Transit would not need its own lane, as long as speeds are kept at least 45 MPH+ at all times, via the variable tolling, skyrocketing it if need be.

Yes, it would be 'Lexus tunnels' for the well-off, but at least it would offer some usage relief for the general purpose lanes on the surface highways. Also, anything over 6 wheels would be prohibited from the tunnels. But, shipping trucks would get their own dedicated lanes on the surface interstates, even a dedicated truck lane on interchange ramps.

This could either be built under the existing highways, or in all-new locations. Maybe 4 or 5 new expressways, in total.

[tikigod311]

We need to just keep a TBM around full time

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Those are not unreasonable ideas at all, fouthwarden.

At the same time let's not lose sight of the fact that the automobile is one heck of a way to get around. It's one of the reasons US commute times tend to be better than they are in Europe and Asia.

It's going to take a multifaceted approach and there's no point in demonizing roads and cars.

And lets not lose site of the fact that jobs are also spread around. Commuter rail (as generally practiced) is much better for a place with a heavy concentration of jobs downtown.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by bu2

And lets not lose site of the fact that jobs are also spread around. Commuter rail (as generally practiced) is much better for a place with a heavy concentration of jobs downtown.

Wrong, the Jobs are concentrated along the Perimeter-Buckhead-Midtown-Downtown corridor. Commuter rail would work well.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Negative.
Reducing congestion: Katy didn’t | City Observatory

Note that data measures part of I-10 (from 610 to downtown) that did not get expanded. It would tell more if it only measured Katy to I-610. And the growth in the area over the last 15 years has been phenomenal. Growth was coming long before the freeway expansion. It would be far worse if nothing had been done. And as noted in the first article, traffic is flowing freely during non-rush hour which it didn't before.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Wrong, the Jobs are concentrated along the Perimeter-Buckhead-Midtown-Downtown corridor. Commuter rail would work well.

Do you have multiple stops? What does that do to your time getting downtown (or from the south to Perimeter)? Where are you going to put it that services those areas? Are you going to force transfers?

Commuter rail doesn't handle frequent stops as well as MARTA. And if you are going to force transfers, you kill ridership. Your "concentration" is about 15 miles long. It works for MARTA. It doesn't work well for commuter rail.